With the growing acceptance across the country of plants and chemicals as legitimate aids to self-awareness and spiritual growth, Kathy Adams asked if she could get Samuel’s perspective about their effects and their proper use.

 When we have worked with the various kingdoms in the past, we have sent energy to the mineral, plant, animal and human kingdoms, but fungi and mushrooms were not included. Was this an accidental omission, or does this kingdom not need our energy?

Actually, it wasn’t an oversight at all. I refer to them as a part of the plant kingdom just because it’s simpler, in the same way I call humans part of the animal kingdom because it’s simpler. What is it about them that you’re interested in?

Basically, what their role is in helping humanity?

Of course, like many other things, it depends upon what version of them you’re referring to. Some of them have different uses than others, but for the most part they are the vehicles for communication within the plant kingdom. They stabilize the spiritual aspect, the soul, of the plant kingdom as a whole.

Fungi are kind of like the vultures in that they help create new life and destroy old life. Again, this is very, very generalized because different ones have different purposes. I know that you’re going to be asking about psilocybin mushrooms, but that’s not the only type of mushroom that is hallucinogenic. There are mushrooms that will eat your brain, and there are some that will improve your life. So it all depends on what you’re looking at.

You have mentioned that you have no problem with people wisely and safely using plants and mushrooms in the way they were intended—to spiritually help push our evolutionary process. Knowing that, what are the spiritual functions among the more commonly known entheogens, which are ayahuasca, psilocybin, peyote, LSD, MDMA, 5-MEO DMT?

My question to you is, Why? Why is it I would answer that? Because ultimately what I would tell you is that most people should not be using them. Most people use them recreationally, so they are abusing what the plants are about.

Well, if we’re wanting to expand ourselves spiritually, then which plant medicine would be the most helpful in that regard?

There are very few people within the Phoenix tribe who would find them anything other than a crutch, and I’m not a fan of crutches. I do recognize, however, that many people fairly recently, as well as even more people in the past, have been making use of hallucinogenic plants for different purposes. As is the case with many things, if you are going to do it, what good is it for me to say don’t? So what I have tried to do is say, “But you need to remember that plant medicine is a very spiritual thing.” In fact, with the growing awareness of cultural appropriation, I’m surprised that anyone who has not grown up with it as a part of their tribal work—for instance, those who live along the Orinoco River—would choose to do that anyway.

But assuming that you’re going to use them, there are essentially two purposes. Both of them are spiritual, and both are about healing. There are the plants that work very much in your physical experience, and don’t throw off your sense of time quite so much. And then there are those that are more about your higher mental and spiritual experience; they do throw off your sense of time very much. You can travel the universe and be back in fifteen minutes, and literally that’s because the plants have helped you move out of your body.

Now, basically ayahuasca, DMT and its derivatives, all the substances that you’ve mentioned except psilocybin, tend to work out your current and past karmic experiences. There are so many plants that have those particular alkaloids that it’s hard to say they are all going to do this, but some variations within the DMT line will.

Some tree barks, woodrose, mimosa, variations of these—I’m trying to think of North America here—they have more of a psilocybin-like effect, but generally you’re going to have DMT versions and psilocybin versions.

Psilocybin is here for your future. It’s here for your ability to get out of this experience and shift dimensionally. It’s to show you what is possible, what you are. It does not mean that you won’t be able to find that same thing for yourself. That’s how it becomes a crutch. Ideally everything a plant can give you, you as a high-frequency Guardian can give yourself.

Stuart often says that he has to use a plant to do what the Form does every day. And that’s an Ascension process that’s moving out of form, out of Fifth and into Sixth Density. You have that access. So if there’s anything that I would say to use it for, it’s to see what you can access, but it comes with a lot of caveats about how you should do it.

What are the karmic consequences for the recreational use of psychedelics?

The first thing is that it becomes a crutch. You do not feel like yourself without it. You begin setting up your time with the thought of “When can I do this again?” It destroys your focus, spiritually speaking, because you have this drug that will give you a shortcut. And, of course, the problem with that for people who are not on a spiritual journey is that they end up seeing the worst of themselves. They end up being haunted by themselves. They end up having a very skewed version of what Spirit is about, and I find that horrifying and dangerous.

And needless to say, there are a thousand different ways a trip can go wrong. You can have allergic reactions; if you are allergic to mold, don’t take mushrooms! Yet people do.

There are all kinds of things that can go wrong depending on the drugs you take. For instance the kinds of mixtures that come with ayahuasca that cause you to purge can be dangerous because of that purging. There are just so many reasons not to use drugs recreationally.

Now, I would say the very same thing with regard to alcohol or tobacco, both of which have been used ceremonially and spiritually but, when abused, create all kinds of problems. Any addictive substance can become a crutch when not used properly; any substance that moves you more deeply into yourself can become a problem.

Every person is different. Every response is different. And it really takes having somebody who knows what they’re doing, and knows you through and through, to ensure that you are not going to land in trouble physically, mentally, emotionally, or spiritually by that use.

Psilocybin is being researched as therapy for many ailments, including addiction, depression, anxiety, and post traumatic stress disorder. Many are considering it to be the next major breakthrough in the area of mental health. How, if at all, could this psilocybin impact the mental health and/or the spiritual consciousness of our current society?

Hypothetically, in a very safe situation with a very careful dosing and a good amount of psychological help to go with it, this absolutely would be a major breakthrough. MDMA and ketamine, these are breakthrough drugs. And when I say breakthrough I mean not only as a technology to help bring about healing—particularly for mental illnesses—but they are a breakthrough for a person making use of them wisely. I think one of the big things that those drugs do is help reinstall the original programming, the original . . . what do you call that with a computer?

Operating system.

To reinstall the original operating system, which is marvelous for many people who have been hurt in life and had poor responses to it. If they have been in war, assaulted sexually, or any number of things, to be able to rebuild is incredible, particularly with psilocybin, because it restores the spirit. Psilocybin trips, as you know, are about connecting with—and I am using air quotes here—”God.” They’re about dimensional shifting. They’re about moving into observer mode. And that is very powerful, and it’s consistent, and that’s a real gift.

It is becoming more legal in your world, and so of course that means the pharmaceutical companies are manufacturing what they believe is the same thing, and it’s not. As a vegan you know why you want to eat the whole fruit, instead of taking vitamin B3 out of it. It’s the same thing. There’s so much more that you’re going to get out of the whole fruit that helps to balance it all. Same thing. And again, it takes a lot of preparation, a lot of care, a lot of knowledge and a lot of set-up. You’re working in magical realms.

How can Guardians positively influence the  re-emergence of psilocybin in this society?

Do not culturally appropriate. Be honest. Be seeking. Be at your highest and best for your experience, which will change you, as you know. And in this world, change comes one by one by one.

Now, I’m going to add something to that—network it. Because one by one by one means you are consciously connecting with others, and over the years I’ve noticed that a lot of people think it’s just sort of magical: When you are changed, you change your friends, and one of those friends may happen to know lawmakers, whom they then change. Of course, you can also put the information together about the use and get that to the lawmakers, but Kentucky hasn’t even legalized cannabis so . . .

Now I don’t want this to end without my talking to you about what I believe makes for a good experience.

The use of plants is as old as humans are. It’s as old as pre-Homo sapiens sapiens. Even animals use plants to hallucinate. It is a very ancient practice. And while I am not big on religious practices—because I consider most of them as a step back and a giving away of your power—I’m also a big believer in reminding you that you are right here in this time and space with technology where it is right now. For instance, if you find yourself with a disease, you go to the doctor and you make use of the technology.

So this is how I would say to make use of the technology: Before you even look for somebody to help you with this, do your homework. And that first bit of homework is a fearless look at yourself. Know what your purpose is with this, and do everything you can without using plants to be as healed and whole as you possibly can be. Don’t let old scare tactics get in your way, but be certain that you don’t have conditions or medications that will cross-wire things. I believe that this information is pretty available, so do your homework. Know what it is you want, and why you want it. Become an expert on whichever substance you decide to use. This is not about, “Oh I’m going to try this. I’m going to check it out. I’ve got a friend who really enjoyed this.” No.

Second thing: you must have a guide. Even when the tribal shaman didn’t have a religious connection, but worked specifically for healing purposes, you don’t gain that title when you’re twelve. You gain that when you’re fifty. You need a guide who knows you and whom you trust. And a guide is not a babysitter. It’s a guide who’s able to help you have the best possible experience. Right there is where most people fail.

Next thing: you want to create your spiritual manifesto for that trip or journey. You want a spiritual manifesto, and I don’t mean a paragraph about what you’re wanting and why. I mean pages in which you are opening your heart, essentially speaking to the Universe. It’s your prayer, if you will. You want to be sure that your vision in this vision quest is about your highest good spiritually. If you focus on your physical—even if you’re taking physically oriented plants—instead of your spiritual, I guarantee you will see all of your shadows come up. You want to remember that every journey is about death and rebirth. Death and rebirth in the spiritual sense is a much more powerful experience than in the physical sense.

So, again, go with the spiritual. Think through what you want to rebirth into. Think through what you want to experience. When you take the plant, be filled already with white Light in every cell of your being. Absolutely connect into the highest and best and brightest Love that you are.

The plant is giving you a portal, and you are grateful to it. You recognize its sacrifice. You merge with it, and then you swallow, or inhale, or breathe, whatever it is you are doing. Your guide stays with you, and they know how to call a doctor if it’s necessary. Don’t do this out in the jungle because you can have fifty good journeys, and then the fifty-first can go wrong. Space your journeys out so that you have time to process them. People run into trouble when they ingest plants three or four days in a row. You need to process and that’s a physical, a mental and spiritual process.

You’ve also told us to stay within the laws of the particular place we live in. It’s the impeccability of a good Guardian.

While I absolutely promise you that impeccability is my thing, a Guardian who wants to weasel around that absolutely will. So while I would say remember you are responsible for any consequences and therefore it’s better to follow the law, I would also say that the U.S. has some laws that are pretty unacceptable and not impeccable. Generally, I think the biggest thing in there is that it’s not a recreational activity. And if you’re using it that way, you’re not being impeccable.

This is very helpful.


Well, I couldn’t find this kind of information out there, so I’m really glad that you’re providing it and making it available to everyone.

I encourage Guardians to be careful, to be smart, and to realize that this is stepping off a cliff. You will not be the same, and if you are you didn’t prepare properly. So you need to be ready for that.