At Samuel’s invitation, Jerry Cook prepared and presented questions for this interview and joined in with the editors and Frank Schultz in the discussion that arose out of them.

I would like to start with some clarifications. People that have had near-death experiences in which they go to the other side and then come back talk about the feeling of being surrounded by love while on the other side. Here we feel it’s an emotional thing, but what is it on the other side these people are trying to describe?

I want you to think about the best sex you’ve ever had.

It seems like I’m dreaming more about it recently than having it, but yes.

[Laughing] There are actually a whole lot of readers who will relate to that.

What made it good? Are you comfortable answering that?

Just the feeling of exhilaration along with simply not thinking about anything, just being totally in the moment.

Totally in the moment, yes. I think what I would say incorporates that.

A really great sexual experience requires several things. One of them is trust. You and the other person are letting go of yourselves, so it’s okay to trust that you’re safe. There is also a union that happens. Even without a mutual orgasm there is a oneness throughout the experience, or certainly in pieces of it. Depending on the kind of connection you have with your partner, there is a sense of, as you said, nothing but the now—me and you, right here, lost to the world.

Leaving the body and returning to your natural state [death], first, is like a great weight being taken off of you and, second, is a reunion, a clear and full connection with Source. And like an excellent oneness that comes from really great sex, there is that pure union, the return to All That Is, to make it all that it should be. It’s not personality—that’s released. It’s not thought—that’s released. It is the pure, unbound “no bay’unz, no boundaries” Love of the Return.

I find it interesting how people who, through those out-of-body experiences—which you would think of as a near-death experience—how they think of that as death, because it is actually quite far from death. They’re still holding on to the personality and its experiences because the body isn’t fully turned off and the soul is still intact. What that creates is the personality’s version of love: they see what they are expecting to see. That might be family that has gone ahead, or maybe Jesus or Mohammed or . . . It’s just a translation thing, because the brain, even after what you would currently consider brain death, is still active. The body is not dead because the soul is still intact. So their version of how loving it is isn’t based on the full release of this world. They still take the world with them. “Oh, there is my mother, so filled with love!” “There is Jesus. Oh, such a loving experience!” It has much to do with the expectation. But when you are fully gone, then you are merged in a way that you cannot experience in this world, and the closest I can give to that is the power and the fulfillment and the joy and the love of really right sex.

I bet that wasn’t the answer you were looking for, was it?

Well, I’m still trying to figure out this whole process of what we’re doing here, and to me love is part of it: when we come into this dimension, having that element of love that we’ve experienced on the other side and that we’re always trying to recapture on this side.

Those who function at a high enough frequency that they are able to remember it are trying to capture that greater union, that Love, on this side. Truly, until things change most people don’t remember. Don’t wish for that.

Please define Absorption and Ascension and how they are related in this transformational experiment that we are working with you on.

Is Absorption where we’re totally incorporating the soul in our everyday experience and we’re totally absorbed by the soul so that we are that soul in physical reality at that point?

That sounds more like Ascension. Absorption is what happens after Ascension is complete. Ascension is something that happens after Sacred Status is complete.

Now, I’m going to start with Sacred Status and move it forward, all right?


If you will remember, Sacred Status is the plan for this planet, and when I say “this planet,” I am referring to the human experience, because the experiment of form involves more than the human; there is life beyond mineral, plant, animal, human. Sacred Status is that point at which more than half of life force on this planet has recognized its spiritual component.

Now, what do I mean by “recognizing its spiritual component?” It’s hard for Guardians to relate to that because you grew up thinking, There’s got to be more than this; this isn’t it. Even for those who tried sitting in church, it wasn’t to be found there. They were looking for that which is greater. At some point you as a Guardian recognize that you are not simply—as much as I joke about it—a bag of chemicals that has a soul, that you are in fact a spirit being that is taking on the human experience. That is what more than half of life force must recognize.

Of course animal and plant life recognize that they are a part of a greater spiritual being, that they are one with others. Minerals are already at mastery and already recognize the oneness, but the plant, the animal, and the mineral kingdoms, theirs is to recognize their oneness with the greater. With humans, it’s that they are a spiritual being, and that has to do with the process of spiritual evolution. When that comes about, Sacred Status is Activated.

Sacred Status isn’t an end-point; it is a beginning, because that’s where you are going to see massive change come about.

Like what?

Well, think about it for a moment. If more than half in your world recognized they were spiritual beings as opposed to human drones, what do you think it would be like?

Well I would think people who are involved in a religion would begin to believe that there is more.

There’s a difference between thinking there’s more, and realizing that you are more. A big difference. The kinds of things that come about when you realize you are more, hopefully, are such things as decisions based more on a spiritual attitude than a worldly one. That alone could make some pretty big changes in the world. There would be more of a willingness to unify, to have that spiritual connection in common rather than just relatives or the work we do.

I’m going to use this work as an example. When you first connected into this work, you recognized something that felt right for you, and you started exploring what that might be. You met people of like mind. You took the risk of trying some of the exercises and risking changes to the way that you thought, the way that you felt about things. For the most part, it was really good. Sometimes it was a little chaotic and you got hit over the head with a two-by-four, but you saw constant growth and progress. In a smaller way that’s what should come out of Sacred Status. But here is the thing to remember about Sacred Status: it is a process, but it doesn’t require that at the end of that process—which is Ascension—every bit of life force on the planet has to be fully realized.

What do you mean by fully realized?

Going there. Not only awake, but active, serving, growing spiritually. You are not simply aware that you are more, but taking that and working it into the world.

When you have at least half of those who are awake—well, more; fifty-one percent, let’s say; although that’s pitiful, that will work—they create Sacred Status with that awakening into their spiritual awareness. From that, the next awakening is into action—service. So when at least half of those awakened ones reach that point of conscious spiritual activity—when they’re fully realized, then you have completed Sacred Status and you are in Ascension.

With Ascension you have now a very different description because of what has come out of the ascended Guardianship. Out of the ascended Guardianship, those working at a higher, and higher, and to the highest frequency, have started transfiguring into something different altogether—beings that are no longer spirit residing inside a form—as active as it might be—but spirit fully enmeshed. And then the next stage of that, which is fully controlled by the spirit—that’s the completed Transfiguration process.

Fully controlled by spirit?

Yes, meaning in this case fully controlled by the spirit you are, because it’s not just any spirit, it’s you.

Ascension is going to mean that more of that Transfigured Being is going to be functioning in the world.

What is that going to look like? Look at your life. It’s going to look as different as each one of you. How are you dealing with that process, and what is it bringing into the lives of you and your friends? One thing it’s bringing is a lot of resistance. Resistance because the human self is saying, “I don’t have control here!” and it likes to have control. It’s bringing out every weakness, no matter how long ago you thought you had that worked out. If it’s not fully worked out it’s showing up, because you are being purified. The form cannot fully merge with that spirit self without a willingness to do so.

So the resistance comes, first, from the form’s lack of willingness, but as you continue in the process, the human self begins to accept and you become, by far, less human and more spiritual until you’ve got that merge.

It’s a time of difficulty until you have that merge. There’s no way to sugar-coat that. It’s a time of difficulty because you are cleaning out the last of what has had to be cleaned out. But that clean-out comes in stages. It’s not “All right, I’ve worked on it. It’s over. No problem anymore with my stubbornness.” It’s not that. It’s a mastery of what you are—or a resistance to that mastery. And in Ascension, what that mastery means is that you are not limited to form in order to serve and do, which is what I’ve been talking to you about over the last couple Lifescapes.

At the next Lifescapes I’m going to have you making those gateways which people who went to Nevis already know about. It will mean that you can work in the invisible as well as the visible. But it’s always about service. It’s not about making this life easier, better, good for you. It’s only ever about service.

As we serve out of form, does that help our bodies, our forms, see that it’s okay, so it’s much more accepting?

Yes it does. The more you do the exercises, the more you’re going to transform.

So, you’re talking about a process.

Yes, I am.

And one of the things you learn to do is to detach emotionally.

Hopefully, yes.

I’ve noticed that it is easier to do in human interactions, but not with animals. I find it hard to detach my emotions from animals.

It depends on what it is you are experiencing. Guardians are naturally very protective. When you become aware of suffering—human, animal, plant, mineral—and minerals do suffer—you want to do something, you want that to change. I hope you never lose that.

The key is to act, but to act realistically. For instance, you see an extremely overcrowded animal shelter in which dogs are having a hard time, cats are starting to fight each other, the rabbits are taking over, and you know that they need more human interaction. So you take one or two or three or four home so that they can have that human interaction. Of course, if you lived in the city in a small apartment, you probably couldn’t do that, so instead the only thing you can do is donate some time at the shelter to love the cats and walk the dogs. Would that help?

It would relieve some of the stress on them.

And that’s what I mean by realistic. If you cannot make the whole situation all right—and I can pretty well guarantee you cannot, no matter what it is you’re looking at—you can take some action, and what action you can realistically take, you should.

That isn’t about service to the other kingdoms; it’s about your learning your boundaries, because until you are fully Transfigured, you will always have some boundaries. So the question to ask yourself is always, “What can I do?” Then do it.

Bad news: it doesn’t get any easier, because the more you merge, the more you are able to understand what’s going on with that animal or that animal kingdom, or that plant or that plant kingdom. So you need to teach yourself to look at a larger picture and to recognize that it’s the human that’s winning when you’re stuck in the small picture. If you choose to do that [stay stuck], I would consider it a limitation, a way of staying where you are. But this is the land of free will; you can choose that. But if you back off to see the larger picture—“I can’t change how it is in the whole world, but I can change where it is in my world, and in my world this is what I’m capable of”—and take responsibility for that, then you’re probably going to make greater changes than when you are functioning out of emotion.

Greater changes in myself?

In the place where you see need.

Would that be like the difference between being a nurse in a hospital emergency room and being the health administrator of a state and improving the system that will bring better service to everybody? If you stay at the nursing level, you never get to the level where you can improve a system.

But if you are at the nursing level and feel fulfilled because you see that you are helping in the moment and you are giving your energy where it is needed and you really don’t have a vision of wanting something bigger, then great. Then you are doing what you ought to. On the other hand, if you’ve realized that there is a way to bring about a bigger change, then that is what you should be doing.

Now, Absorption is a planetary thing. You know that over the years I have said that when the energy of the planet itself and the energy of all the life force upon it is at its highest level that’s going to be the end of the experiment, because at that point the Planetary Being and the wholly realized life force upon the planet become one. When that happens life becomes wholly a choice. You are without a physical body except by choice, without need except by choice, without separation except by choice.

Is there life that you know of on Venus?

You can’t see it, but it’s a sacred planet, so I assume that life is there.

Venus has become a way to move out of this solar system in order to function in and out of this galaxy to join with or create your own experiment like this one.

Our own experiment?

Yes, your own experiment like this one.

What could that possibly entail?

You become the Solar Lord of your own planetary bodies. You function as a creator. You are God. That’s what that entails. Wow!

Okay, I’m still not clear on that. At the time of Absorption the earth and everything on the earth is absorbed.

It has reached the highest of what form can possibly become.

So at that point does earth and everything disappear?


So life goes on.


The planet goes on.

No. Yes. No. And that really is the answer. Remember that with Ascension you are no longer obligated to form. With Absorption, you are no longer obligated to anything. You are functioning within and as the Greater One. So you are not obligated to form or emotion or the limitations of brain and mind and thinking. You are a fully functioning being of pure Source Love.

So where am I going to be?

All right, I’m going to break that down into pieces: “Where” isn’t part of the equation. Where am “I”—which is this human self and isn’t a part of this equation—going to be is wherever your Intent takes you.

Okay. So at that point I’m going to be like the air. I’m going to be invisible, if I choose to be.

If you choose to be.

I am going to be physical.

If you choose to be.

Where can I choose to be? Where will there possibly be a place that I could go to be physical if the earth is no longer as it is?

Do you really think this is all there is?

I have no idea what else there is.

Even if you just looked upon the plane of form itself in this universe, if you just stuck yourself to this dimension and this universe, there are stars, planets, galaxies, solar systems that are ripe for your creative choices.

Now that sounds like fun.

Good. It should be.

Is this the path that Vesta-Helios took to become Solar Lord?


And we are the Solar Lord over this planet?

I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying there.

Well, I guess the Solar Lord would be—I hesitate to say a being—a force that is trying to balance, control, to use, as in the case of the sun, to bring about something else.

Well, the Solar Lord is embodied by the sun, and all of the planets seen and unseen by you at this point are a part of its service. The planet is a spirit being itself, and it has a very special connection with the Solar Lord. Every planet has a connection like that, and it’s sort of like the bride and the bridegroom—a very intimate relationship of choice. So to ask whether the planet has a Solar Lord, it is the Solar Lord. It’s not different from that Solar Lord, but the planet itself is also a spirit, and what you might be thinking of when you say that.

Here’s another question: As we look up into the sky we are limited by how far we can see with today’s technology. Does space expand into infinity? Is there no end to it? What else is out there?

It’s more correct to say “the observable universe,” because all you can ever know is based on how far you can see. However, your technology is constantly allowing you to see more and more.

Here is the answer to your question: as long as you are looking, there will be more to look at.

So every sun that’s out there has a Solar Lord?

Every one? No.

So what are they? Just balls of fire in the sky?

Big bags of gas, just waiting for an absorbed planet’s beings to become creators and take it on.

To create new experiments.


Just as the Solar Lord did.


So that means there would be three or four hundred million absorbed beings that could become Solar Lords.


They each can become Solar Lords. Is that what you’re saying? Wow. This is a big experiment, isn’t it?

But it’s a choice—remember that—because there are also other dimensions than this visible spectrum. And another choice is just adding to the Great Oneness. That doesn’t require “I want to do my own thing.”

Will my Higher Self, my higher soul, always have some sort of independent thinking and ability that’s unique and different from every Higher Self that’s out there? Or am I just absorbed back into Source to become just a part of the whole again, without being an individual with separate capability?

Do you remember who you were twenty years ago?

Sort of. I was different than I am now.

That’s what it’s like. That past self right here in this life is very different from who you are now, and before that, there are other selves during this life until the time you were just barely thinking. Anytime you need to, you can reach into that self and make it active in order to fulfill a purpose. For instance, pull up a memory, remind yourself what you looked like back then when you were twenty years younger. You just pull it up because you choose to, and when you pull it up, it’s all there. So again, that’s a yes and no answer. Yes, you do “just” fully absorb. No, who you are right now isn’t lost.

If I’m going to be a Creator, if I’m going to have my own sun and planets circling around and I’m creating my own experiments, then where am I pulling all of that information from in order to do that?

You’re having trouble seeing that because you’re not at that absorbed state where you have access to All That Is. That’s where it comes from—the creative breath of Source itself—but because you’re sitting here embodied by a personality named Jerry you’re not able to move to that place where Ascension has happened, and on beyond Ascension into Absorption. So I can’t really answer that.

I don’t see how anyone could have fear of dying. I don’t see how anyone could have fear of what’s next.

They’re afraid of losing what they have.

Just like I was talking about before: losing a personality, losing who I am.

That’s because it’s what you know. “Better the devil you know than the devil you don’t”—something like that.

When you’re talking about doing this or that as a choice, the only way you can communicate that to us is by using form as an analogy.


But we’re not at that point of making choices.


Not in the way we think of as choices.

You are a function of Intention, and as you choose to direct that Intent, it is the equivalent of a choice.

So that’s not coming from something we think of as a mind so much.

Not so much.

As we’re going to evolve into a being that’s able to go into other dimensions, other areas of thinking, and work out situations outside of this physical body, are we going to be able to do that and then come back in this physical body and have memory of all of this and understand what we’ve done?

Yes, you will be able to do that outside of your physical self; no, you are not likely to remember it except through your dreams. Your dreams will show you what you’ve done. The reason that you don’t remember it is because there are two ways to travel out of body and most of the time, when people talk about how to travel out of body, they’re talking about this first version that involves using the mind. But that’s not where I want you to go, although I will make sure that you know how to do that. But where I’m wanting you to go is to leave this physical dimension and move into the spectrum that is still physical but unseen and unknown, for the most part, by your physical self. Because it’s still physical, the imprint of the experience is left with you, but it’s not translatable by the brain as a memory would be. So where it shows up is in your dreams; you have a real dream: “I went somewhere. I did this. I saw myself!” You’re remembering that kind of travel.

Some dreams I have had recently have had certain things in common. There’s always a group involved. I’m always somewhere else, traveling or something like that. Is that part of the experience of traveling? You come back with some kind of impression of commonality with each dream, or is each dream going to be different?

Everything is yes and no here today. It depends upon what the purpose of the shift was about. If the purpose of the shift was to serve—your compact is to serve this planet. And let me emphasize that: it is your compact. There may be people reading this who aren’t Guardians, who don’t have that compact, and if that’s the case their compact would probably be different. But as your compact is to help the planet and all life force on it reach Sacred Status, you will be serving for that process. And you will be serving at times with others who are doing the same thing and in places and with things that are the same because it’s another kind of life. It’s the idea of a parallel existence, a multiverse, in a sense; that’s really right because you are doing all of this stuff. But it’s not a different universe; it’s this one, but it’s in a different frequency on the spectrum of form.

As we’re absorbed, as we finish with this experiment, and we have the ability to be creators ourselves, as we look out into the universe, there’s a lot of stars; there’s a lot out there. Will we have the ability to go out and do things in the universe that will bring about changes in the universe?

You will have the ability, but you will also have a choice, and that choice is “Do I want to stay with this universe and the options it provides, or do I want to do something else?”

So is there a limited number of universes out there that this choice is going to be involved in?

Remember that the universe is a function of form. Without form there is pure being without a stage to act on, so to speak. And there is more than one stage; there are many stages in which to act. It’s all choice. But the thing that you have to remember is that choice is very different when you are one with Source than it is when you have a brain and you’re sitting in a chair in a living room trying to make it all fit. It’s not the same thing. Spirit is a creative function. There is always the desire to create, but there is not a need to do so.

This is a question I think a lot of us have had. We’re limited by our physical minds and ability to think, so what we see out there we make judgments on.


With the raising of the Dragons over the years, we can’t actually see a Dragon coming up. We can’t see that great changes have occurred other than maybe chaos in some cases.

And in this case you should be saying, “I can’t see a great Dragon coming up” and “I can’t see,” because some do see them.

Okay. So as changes have occurred because of the raising of the Dragons in different areas, what could you point to and say those are results? You see, there are some changes that we can relate to, but we try to judge things with our physical minds and if it’s not obvious, it’s like, “Well? So?” and we keep waiting for something big to happen. And I guess the something big we’re all waiting for is the big shift so that we can get finished with this.

The thing about the big shift is that this isn’t like an explosion. It’s steps and steps and steps and steps until suddenly you’re at the end of the journey. It’s not a mass happening; it’s bit by bit.

Evolutionary, not revolutionary.

Yes. Let’s think about the Mississippi Dragon. Since the raising of the Mississippi Dragon, what has gone on in your country?

Political turmoil.

Turmoil. All right, you could say that. I would say that there has been a massive awakening to personal empowerment. The old has been kicking and screaming and doing everything it can to hold on and stop the birth of the new. Politically speaking, there are more Americans who are sick and tired of the old than there are who want to keep the status quo, and that is the first time that’s been true in more than a hundred years.

There is far more awareness of those Guardian qualities—wanting to help those who are oppressed and feed those who are hungry and provide basic necessities. And that’s not only right here in the U.S., but in the whole world. The fact that you see such strong gun lobbies and people wanting more border patrol is because they are feeling threatened. The way it has always been is starting to crumble, and that is because the Dragon seed, which is a seed of empowered life force, has filtered out and is causing life force to say “I don’t have to put up with this.” Truth be told, that shows up as chaos most of the time.

Look at what’s going on in Egypt right now. Pat yourself on the back and say, “You’re welcome.” Yes, they are in chaos, but that chaos is “We will no longer be oppressed. We will no longer put up with this kind of violence and ripping away of personal freedoms. We will stand together as a people and be a voice that must be heard.” Wow.

The changes from the Yangtze Dragon—that has shown up more in ways that you just can’t see because China is very private; they only let information get out that they want to get out. Much of the information that gets out by way of your electronics is quashed. But in fact, China is undergoing a small revolution right now. Very much as in America, there are the very, very rich and the very, very poor, and that has been the case in China for thousands of years, but China has now created a middle class. They are recreating a political system that has them more involved in the world. China is going through great changes in many, many ways.

Every place a Dragon has been raised, change is going on, but the key to the change is the empowerment of individuals learning to work together with one voice to bring about that change. It’s really beautiful, beautiful. So pat yourself on the back and say “You’re welcome.”

Thank you for that explanation.

You’re very welcome. We need to do this more often, as you always have the most interesting questions.