You have said that time is not reality, yet you speak of seedings of the earth that come in succession, and you lead us through workings meant to produce a certain effect. But terms such as “change” and “cause and effect” all reinforce our conventional way of thinking about time. Is it possible to have a meaningful dialog about any of these things without using terms that reinforce consensus reality, but instead help us see reality as unchanging or outside of time?

Are you asking a question about time or about consensus reality?

I’m not particularly talking about consensus reality, but more about time.

There are two very accurate but different points being made there. One of them is that time is a function of form, and the other one is that there really is no time. When I say “form,” I’m referring to a dimensional quality, what you think of as the world, or as I sometimes say, the worlds. You need to remember that the dimension of form is all about duality, and time is a function of that duality. Time is the result of the degradation of form at the atomic level, or even smaller. Degradation—there’s a better word for it than that, the process of slowly devolving.

Devolution, maybe?

Remember, you don’t want to stay in this body forever, do you? You don’t want the glass, the clock, the rug to last forever. Those are the pretty broad examples, but everything must devolve.

You have said, when talking about entropy, that the energy will always gradually revert back to chaos.

Correct, but remember, that’s all form. Even on the atomic level of form returning to chaos, it’s all form. But form is how the brain can relate to it, so when we talk about time, it is always going to be as a function of form, because there is no time outside of form. However, there are realities within this dimensional reality in which time functions differently than it does here. So as you think about time functioning differently than here, think about what I’ve referred to as a “crossover.” A crossover means that you are connecting into another dimension within this one, and that creates an evolution of your awareness of time, not only as a function of the clock but as a function of the devolution of matter, or form, as a whole. Within duality, matter is, and the process of moving to a state of is not is what time is all about. In a broad sense, time is the process of duality.

However, we now have Fusion [of masculine and feminine energy]. Fusion has provided the opportunity—not made it the rule—for more of those crossovers to occur, and in this dimension there is a change in reality with regard to time because of those crossovers.

You said, “realities within this dimensional reality.” Would an example of that be when the entity puts down projections into different times?


So if there were projections into 1462 and 1902, for example, there could be a crossover of energy or information between those two.

Yes. You’ve got it. Having said that, though, remember that the big question is, Does it matter? And the answer is no. But I’m happy to play with you here.

You may have already answered this: Does time consist of a single dimension in this physical dimension? You’ve said it doesn’t. Is it correct to think of time as existing along a line, or does the notion of moving sideways in time have any basis in reality? I’m wondering if crossovers may be a kind of sideways movement into another time dimension.

I’m not sure I understand the idea of sideways well enough, because time does not function in a line—and here’s where it gets fuzzy—unless you are someone who doesn’t have access to any crossovers. In that case, time would be linear. However, I don’t see how sideways isn’t a different version of a line.

Well, you can move along a line vertically, but if you move away from it horizontally, that’s what I mean by sideways.

I prefer the illustration of a pond or a stream. You can throw five rocks into a pond, and depending on where they land—one might go here, and one might land over there, and one might just fall by your feet—but it all takes place in time. And the one that’s up here is not going to know anything about the one that’s over there. I like that description better.

Another version is where you stick your foot into a stream and the water that’s running over you right now is not the water that is there in the next moment, because the water that was on your foot first is already downstream. Either of those is workable, but it doesn’t matter how you perceive it; you are affected by it until you reach a point in your experience that you can recognize crossovers. When you are aware of crossovers, you shift out of the limitations of this one viewpoint, which gives you access to other versions of you. But it’s still all form. And if it’s not form, there’s no time because there is no dichotomy. There is time or there is Source.

Is it just Guardians that experience crossovers, or can mass consciousness experience them, too?

Let’s take off both of those labels for a bit. Crossovers involve a frequency change, but that frequency change is the result of awakening at a particular level, or activation at a particular level. Remember that Guardians is my label, but that label covers any of those with whom I have a compact. There are Guardians that are not a part of this work that is Samuel, but have a different label under a different compact. Or, to say that more simply, those I work with in other forms can also do this. It’s a frequency thing, it’s not just a Guardian thing.

You may have already addressed this, but, how does consciously shifting out of the ways in which we’re used to viewing time allow us to recreate our world?

As I have said, you change time when you change your reality. Put that thought aside a moment. One way you can change your reality is to change your belief system. Changing a belief does not mean that you will change time, but changing time is the result of changing beliefs. (I’m getting the smell of smoke from David, and Paula is saying, Yes, I get that.)

“You create your reality” is a very misunderstood teaching. On a very basic level, when newly awakened, it’s easy to acknowledge that every day you change many things, because you have suddenly awakened to new ways of seeing what is around you. But that level of changing your reality is not going to move you out of your reality; it’s changing you so that you see a bigger picture. Hence there is the yellow Volkswagen thing: you never see them until you think “yellow Volkswagen,” and suddenly you see them everywhere. However, on a higher level of frequency, which happens to mean a higher rate of activation or spiritual function—more spirit, less form—you’re actually able to get information from other parts of yourself. And that’s a doorway that eventually you will be able to access at will instead of by serendipity.

When, by your intent, you touch in to one of those bleed-throughs, it becomes a crossover. I know, we’re just playing word games here, but I’m trying to describe different ways of thinking about it. When you are consciously, purposefully, connecting in to a crossover, you are connecting in to the greater flow of time. The greater flow of time is what holds the pattern of form. Pattern-keepers—those who hold the frequency—are the true time-keepers, because holding the pattern means holding time. So they can actually change reality, whereas anyone else is changing themselves to recognize deeper levels of this reality.

Different cultures conceive of time in different ways.

Don’t you love that?

For example, as a linear progression, as a cycle, a spiral. How much is our concept of time created by the design of the human brain and how much is due to thought systems we learn as young children within our cultures?

Well, of course, anything that you learn as a part of your culture is functioning as a part of your brain, so there really isn’t a separation there. The answer is, it’s both.

In what ways does our perception of time in this dimension serve the Plan?

The Plan is a function of the world of form, and time is a function of the world of form. Therefore the way that it serves is that it creates a means for the fulfillment—also called the evolution—of thought, of form, of creation. Time allows for a beginning and end. Without time, you have total oneness.

In what way does the Plan serve Source?

The idea is that the completion of Sacred Status creates an ascended state in which there is not “Source” over here and “something else” over there—a dichotomy. Instead, it is only Source in clear and individuated expression. I tell you all the time that you are Source, but the ultimate result of Ascension is that there is Source [pointing to David] and there is Source [pointing to Paula] and there is Source [pointing to Frank] . . . really creating exactly what I laugh about: the Source convention. It’s the only way for Source to expand. Really. It’s the hope of all of this.

I have heard other discussions—philosophical, metaphysical discussions—in which time is referred to as an illusion, yet you said that, within the realm of form, time rules. So is it incorrect to think of time as an illusion?

Well, time is an illusion, but so is all of this [referring to the room].

So as long as we’re in form, we can’t pierce the veil of illusion that is time, other than crossovers, which is just a different perspective of time.

That’s right.

We can pierce the various illusions that we have made about time, but time is part of this reality.

Correct. Only by moving out of this reality, and fully moving out of it, are you going to have a fully changed expression of time. It helps, though, to remember that if you’re running late for an appointment, you can shift the way you think—usually by doing something that your gut tells you is a spiritual activity—that changes things, thus changing time. How many times have you done that? You’re running late, and all of a sudden you consciously put forth, I’ve got to change time—and instead of taking twenty minutes, you’re there in seven. It does happen. But it doesn’t happen because you have eliminated time; it’s because you have manipulated it.

And you have to believe it can happen.

Yes. You have to know it.

Now, let me ask you a question: if that’s so, why, when I use my hands in the “stop time, stop space” movement, do I always cancel it immediately? And the answer is that when I am working through this form [Lea], I have many limitations, but even with those limitations, it is still revving this form up to an impossibly high frequency, which has its effects. That frequency is still occuring within this reality, and it’s a frequency that could force a change that is not being done by this one whose body I am using. It’s not working within the rules, and that would be problematic. I can change the outcome; I cannot change the outcome. Did that make sense?

You’re capable of changing the outcome, but you don’t have the freedom to change the outcome; it shouldn’t happen.

If I change the outcome—which does happen now and again—it’s with a very minuscule issue that doesn’t throw that line out of place.

So changing the outcome would invalidate the experiment.


It would be like fudging the data.

Yes. Exactly so.

It means something happens that doesn’t need to happen and can mess things up.

Now, mind you, that sort of thing does happen, but it doesn’t happen amongst Guardians. It happens because mass consciousness has fallen into a hole.

What do you mean by a hole?

Let’s hold that for now and move on to the next question, because I think I can explain it better later on in the interview.

During the September first-Sunday meeting, you said, “I want you to try to start thinking of chronology as a cosmic increment rather than a revolution-of-the sun increment.” Would you explain what you meant by that?

Try to get out of the habit of looking at the little version, and think more within the greater perspective. Try to get away from thinking things like “something terrible is going to happen if I don’t do this by tomorrow,” into the greater perspective of “How much does this really matter?” When I said that at the September meeting, I was not making a statement about time but about perceptual reality. I want you to look from the top of the mountain instead of from down among the trees.

Next question: The basic building blocks of cosmology are matter, energy, space and time.

At this point.

We have an understanding of how matter and energy are connected, but would you comment on the relation between space and time as viewed from your perspective?

Remember this: What you (Guardians) know about energy is the very advanced version. Your scientists haven’t put the mathematics on it yet, but it’s there. Einstein was incomplete, not wrong, and that’s going to change soon. Actually, I should say it has already changed; it’s going to become a reality soon, because it’s already in the works now.

All of this information was an aside to explain that the initial assumption isn’t accurate. So let’s go back to the space-time issue.

It’s one of those questions in which it’s very easy to get caught in the assumptions. The assumption here is that your world is working as if it has an understanding of matter and energy, but it doesn’t. Not yet. [To interviewers:] What I’m doing right now at this moment is looking to see if the information about matter and energy, space and time is already in use. Is there understanding among the public? And if it’s not in public understanding, when is it going to be? Because this is one of those subjects that’s going to bring about a massive change in your reality, so I must consider whether it should be put out or not.

The ultimate answer is, it doesn’t matter at all because people are going to believe what they want to.

The thrust of the question is that we think of space and time as similar because they are both dimensional: the dimension of time and the three dimensions of space. I’m asking if there is a connection between them, from your perspective, that is analogous to the connection between matter and energy.

As I’ve been saying, in your world there is a connection—a working together—of space and time, because it’s a function of form. But from my viewpoint they are totally unrelated, because my viewpoint moves outside of form.

Paula, when you were in Mexico, you took part in several visualizations, and there was a visualization in which you shifted. Do you remember that? At the time, looking at your energy, I believe you knew you did that. When Shining power, when Shining function comes into you [Paula] for a working of the Light, for ritual purposes, for you time and space have shifted outside of this world, creating a hole—and here we come to the explanation of what a hole is—in the awareness of mass consciousness. The way I see these holes looks like the ones in Swiss cheese—well, actually nowhere near that many—but I don’t see them the way you might. Think of a piece of fabric that is tightly woven, but there are still tiny holes in it, aren’t there? However, what I see are big spaces, and those big spaces are what form changes through, and what consciousness changes by. And the more often human consciousness experiences those changes, and the more people there are who are taking part in a ritual, as they allow more Shining Force to move through them, the more the “fabric” of your reality changes.

That there are Guardians who have come here for this transition, who have been Shining Beings involved in seedings on this earth, and who are hanging out in human form wishing things would go a whole lot faster than they are right now—that changes what is possible. The picture is so big that to you it would look impossible. To me, it does not look impossible. So the more Shining function is allowed to work in this world, the more people there will be in mass consciousness who transform without a lot of process.

Do you remember a few years ago there used to be discussions within the New Age community about “walk-ins,” which, quite frankly, I just did not care for, because it’s not, as they said, some spirit popping in and using you, it’s you using you. Well, insofar as mass consciousness is concerned, a better description of how a walk-in happens is that a remarkable transformation is made as a result of hitting one of those holes in the fabric of your reality. That’s not the best or the most reliable way to reach the completion of Sacred Status, but it would work.

In Mexico you mentioned pattern-keepers, and you said that Guardians hold this dimension in place through combined thought, basically.

Yes, but not all Guardians are pattern-keepers.

Right. But if we know that we can affect time, change time, and if mass consciousness is touched enough by those holes, isn’t there a danger that the personality aspect of mass consciousness will be too strong and that that ability could be misused?

That’s an excellent question.

Yes, that’s a very real possibility. To shift back to the last interview, in some ways that’s sort of what religion is about. It puts a box around a shift and makes it something to manipulate others with, to abuse power with. Now, many who will be reading this did not get the strong and constant lectures that those who went to Mexico got about abuse of power, but—big picture—abuse of power is most easily accomplished by messing with your time, because your space is connected to your time, and if you lose hold fully on time, then your security system is going to absolutely lock you in to your time and space, making your spiritual evolution much more difficult. The reason it does that is because that insecurity will mean you are so busy keeping what you know as “reality” real—which is what religion does by giving you different versions of reality like heaven and hell—your spiritual growth will be slowed down.

That means that the holes could be a blessing or a curse.

Doesn’t it though? The more Shining energy is active here, the faster it creates a new reality using the holes, and by combining Shining activity with Guardians’ consciously putting energy into the Grid, the more a change in knowledge becomes available.

And an example of that would be Dragon force. Shining activity comes into the world for a specific purpose. That specific purpose is a huge energy change—by way of a seeding—all of which allows a greater understanding, and a change in consciousness—belief systems. Well, to you it looks as if when a seeding is awakened that chaos ensues. And that’s pretty much what happens; it’s the gift of it. But the chaos is directed toward positive change because the opening that brought it about was Shining force. It was an energy change and a consciousness change done at the same time.

As for these holes, what Guardians are putting into the Grid is a safety net, because without that you would have manipulation, you have “nobody knows the answers, so you can make up what you want,” whatever it is is going to manipulate or disempower, versus bringing about very positive change. The very positive change is only going to come from you because the world does not have access to that knowledge.

Some of us have become comfortable with the idea of sending energy to a situation in the past to try to change the resolution of a situation. But if we have knowledge of the outcome already, it seems to make sending that energy pointless. Could you discuss this paradox? Does knowledge of the past prevent our having an effect on it?

It’s the kind of effect you have on it. Or maybe another way to look at it is, the kind of effect you can’t have on it. Let’s say someone was in a car accident and you did not know about it at the time but you’re sending energy even though they’re already out of the hospital; this is the kind of thing that’s being referred to, isn’t it?


So if that person’s already out of the hospital, what good is it to be sending energy to that situation? You’re not going to change what was. But what you can affect is how the person functions through what was. Yes, you can make conscious choices about how you behave and think, but a whole lot of what goes on with you is an automatic process: you breathe without thinking about it, you repair on a cellular level without thinking about it.

You think without thinking about it.

That’s true; it is. That’s so incredible.

So when you send energy back, you are not going to change that the car accident happened, but you are going to be able to have an effect on some of those unconscious actions. You put healing energy into it on a cellular level when you ask for wholeness for a situation. And what that will do is push the cells to make repairs in a way they may not have done so without that energy. It works because it’s a “like attracting like” thing. That’s not outside of science, as you know it, at all. Your knowledge of what your energy is capable of is going to take it to different levels of “like” (that attracts like). You, as a Guardian who knows your power—as opposed to a Guardian who doesn’t—are going to have a greater effect on basic function than one who does not know.

So, bottom line: you’re not changing the event; you’re changing how one moves through that event.

So, I have a car accident and I break my arm; I go to the emergency room; they put a cast on; I go home. The next day somebody sends me energy—I might even be unaware of it—but perhaps my arm heals faster because that energy has been sent to me .


What if a group of fifteen of us, ten years from now, sends energy back to that situation?

Well, that’s like a crossover isn’t it? A future self touching into a past self, or a past self touching into a future self.

But what impact is there on any one of them?

The same. It doesn’t matter; it’s the same.

Because crossovers don’t involve time.

Exactly. But the energy that’s sent, no matter where it’s coming from, is not going to change the outcome, it’s not going to change that the arm is broken. It is going to change how like energy can connect in.

If you have seventy beings capable of functioning at Shining level and directing that energy to a function long past—which is what Dragon work is all about—you are going to affect that because you have like attracting like; you have matched that frequency. A doorway opens because that Shining force is working with it, or—like Mexico or China—it might not fully open and you’ve got to do it again at a higher level because there isn’t enough of a connection. But that’s exactly what it is: it’s a huge accumulation of power moving to a past event, but the only thing that changes it is the right frequency.

As Guardians continue to raise their frequency, they become less veiled and more aware and their perceptions change. How does this change the relationship between Guardians in form and the planet? How does that potentially affect our world?

Read through that question again.

“As Guardians continue to raise their frequency, they become less veiled . . .”

Right there. That throws off the question, because Guardians don’t become less veiled, they are becoming better able to access a different way of perceiving what is still this world’s reality.

Saying that you become less veiled means that eventually it’s all the way gone—unveiled—but that isn’t how it works. What works is that those who have the ability to step outside of the reality that mass consciousness has created do so by having the ability to access crossovers, to access other dimensions of time and space. That loosens the hold of form’s constructs for the one doing that. The good news is, the one doing that is putting that change into the Grid. That can only be done by those who work outside of—that is to say, at a higher frequency than—the Grid itself. The Grid is not a function of mass consciousness. So time flows in a way that is limited by form, or is a function of form, but a higher frequency can change the effect of that function, even though it cannot change that function itself.

I think the question to ask is what I said earlier: Time, does it matter? And the answer is, it doesn’t, because your job as a Guardian is to function at continually higher and higher frequencies, putting into the Grid the opportunity for change. Time means there’s only so many segments of awareness allowed. What you [Guardians] give to all of that is that you can shift through the holes I mentioned earlier, and through your work put the opportunity for positive change into the Grid. And in doing that, in becoming, even for only a few moments, that Shining frequency—you change awareness; you don’t change time. You put into awareness a magical state of being that can turn everything around. Magic, because that’s what it looks like to mass consciousness, and unfortunately what it looks like to a whole lot of Guardians, too. But it’s not magic; it’s you.