At the spring Retreat you spoke about the energy coming to the planet functioning as a great spiral. Is this a metaphor for how we seem to be getting it on all sides, or does the spiral concept actually apply to the form of the incoming energy?

How about both? At the time, I did not think about a spiral being an opportunity for the energy to be coming on all sides. I was thinking of it more as starting out in a small amount and then getting bigger and bigger, while still attached all the way through, so the first thing that was affecting you will also be the last thing affecting you. Think of a tornado, because the way that the energy is hitting this year is very much like that—powerful, strong, hitting from all sides, and yes, moving down to a point and spiraling up, or moving up and then spiraling down—whichever way you want to see it.

Additionally, energy from the Source Field is a whole lot like the air you breathe. It’s everywhere. If you stand and breathe here, you’re going to get air, and if you’re over there, you’re still going to get air. The energy is very much like that. It’s a very strong plasma field, and it functions literally like a spiral weather pattern.

So you’re going to have those downloads a few times this year. You just had one, and you’re going to have another, and yet another before the year is over. Next year not so much. The year after that, absolutely.

We talked in the past about a vortex being a producer of energy. Does that have anything to do with it?

No, it’s not the same thing. That has more to do with manifestation, and this kind of energy has more to do with Density function and the changes going on because of that.

Is there a particular reason it’s not going to be happening next year but will the year after?

Two reasons. One of them is based on the way humanity is functioning right now. Mass consciousness has a repellant quality about it. By that I mean it tends to block a lot of energy just because of the discombobulation of mind and heart. So mass consciousness as a whole is moving toward a prolonged period of pulling into its shell, putting its head in the sand, that kind of thing.

But the other, more accurate reason has more to do with the bodies that energy is moving through—literally, astro-alignments affecting the way the energy is coming to earth. And this year has a lot of very energetically conducive planetary alignments—different kinds, much like you have going on right now. Next year will be very different, and the year after that you will have another set of alignments similar to this year’s.

You also spoke of the “flavor” of energy coming from the direction of Lyra as being one of “karmic release.” Since this energy affects everyone, are you referring to the karma of humanity as a whole or of individuals personally? And since karma is about cause and effect intended to bring about, hopefully, a deeper understanding, how will this energy affect us or benefit us?

This isn’t karma as you think of cause and effect in your human experience. This is about your ability to learn from your experiences. The Lyran energy is much, much more about the way you learn, but I’m not sure I’ve got a better way of saying that.

The human mind works by the associative process, and with that associative process, there are a good many limitations. In order for expansion as a whole, and in order for there to be the kinds of changes that are needed in the Ascension process, the mind needs to become more than an associative process. It must become a part of a whole.

Over the last few years you’ve been recognizing that there is a brain in the head, a brain in the heart, and a brain in the gut, or at least all of those neurological connections that allow you to think well. Much of that information and much of that literal neurological understanding only come through the technology and through research, but instead there’s going to be a recognition, not simply within science, but also among humanity as a whole, that you learn from the non-visual as well as the visual, the material and the nonmaterial. You learn from more than what is outwardly apparent. You are much more like a sponge than a drinking glass.

I’m not sure that any of that is making sense, because it’s not so much a human thing. You are being opened in ways that have always been present but not accessible yet, and the Lyran energy is more or less the key to unlock that accessibility. It is karmic in a mass-consciousness kind of way, but not karma as you tend to think of it, and certainly not the kind of karma which other energetic presence stimulates—the Andromedans for instance.

Are you saying that humanity won’t rely as much on what it can actually see, but that there will be a greater intuitive process going on where the connection can be made?

Absolutely. Intuition is very likely what it’s going to be called, but the fact of it is you read the air around you right now. You don’t realize you’re doing that, and you may never realize it, but it’s going to become recognized in a very clear way that this is a part of how humans in particular experience time and space.

I don’t know that mass consciousness will be able to access that knowing without calling it intuition or God, but Guardians will. It’s simply talking to Spirit, talking to “God”, and getting answers. You will go out into nature and be able to talk to the sense of the sacred, and sense a reply. And Guardians will be able to hone that and make use of it.

The other energy that you spoke about at the Retreat was coming from the direction of Andromeda. And you described it as that of “wisdom through experience,” which sounds a lot like the energy of karma that is coming through Lyra. Of course, you just said that Lyra’s energy isn’t karma as we think of it. So what is the difference between the two energies?

“Wisdom through experience,” and the key word there is wisdom. Karma tends to be based in experience, whether you gain wisdom from it or not, and if you don’t it will come back around. But wisdom through experience requires higher mind, and that higher mind is the Andromedan key.

Lyra has to do with heightening or accelerating a physical process that creates a mental awareness. It’s very much a result of all of the DNA changes you have been and will continue going through. Andromeda is a very worldly process. What you put out is going to come back to you, but at a higher level; you’re going to be able to see it, understand it, apply it, and gain wisdom from it.

You have said that we are coming into the time of the Warrior Goddess. What are the characteristics of the Warrior Goddess?

If you think through both of those labels, the warrior and the goddess, you will recognize that the warrior is far more than the physical prowess. The warrior is that ability to think quickly, to be able to respond quickly and in a good way. [To Paula] You like to complain that you don’t think very well on your feet, that you prefer to stop and think about something, as most people do. But the warrior can think right there, in that moment, and make decisions, decisions that are going to have an effect to bring—ideally—safety, however you want to say that. They are personally empowered, and it is a personally focused function.

Now, an individual warrior is quite different from an army, a group of soldiers. An individual warrior has to be able to function alone, and that’s a very different energy because the energy of unity and the focus of Oneness are all about “what I cannot do, you can.” So you fulfill a unique place that way. But the warrior can be left out in the field on their own and do what is best for both the mission and themselves. So it’s a whole different kind of thinking. It’s very self-oriented, as opposed to a battalion that has to think together.

Goddess has everything to do with feminine power that is molded into the shape of loving, compassionate, creative, helpful, but still a warrior. Goddess is more of an outward function, meant for the world, while the warrior is meant for itself. If you put those two together, you’re going to have a pretty balanced masculine and feminine. You’re going to have an individual that can function on their own but has compassion, has empathy, is able to think of the whole. It’s a very powerful combination, and in actuality many, many Guardians come in with that kind of energy.

One aspect I think of when I think of a warrior is the ability to keep going in the face of difficulties. The ability to keep the vision. Is that a part of it?

Yes, that would also be in there, but as always you’ve got to be careful, because that ability to keep going can also just be stubbornness. It can just be thinking of oneself and beating one’s head against a wall. So as with everything, it’s important to look at both sides. Warriors can also be dangerous, and goddess force can be just trippy, not really functional in this world, so both.

Does this relate to the abuse of power that is going on in the world right now? Is this a way of counteracting power over and moving it to power with?

No, but I really like the sound of that. I like that thinking a lot. I should have thought of that.

Abuse of power is a problem with the experiment, and the energy coming through right now is not meant as a fix as much as it is a natural flow of the evolution of Spirit through the Ascension process. So while the one has a very positive effect on the other, it just so happens it’s at the same time.

At the Retreat you said something to the effect of “I’d like to see you start fresh from a higher-frequency place.” You went on to say, “You are not an apprentice. You’re not functioning in power if you don’t know how to wrangle power.” Would you explain that?

And a second question relates to the same idea: At the Retreat, you said that we should not “claim our God-ship,” which you described as a limitation. To us it seems like the same thing.

I agree. What you hear in the first quotation is my version of frustration. Do you know the phrase “weaponized incompetence”? Are you familiar with that phrase? It means being helpless on purpose.

Like the tyranny of weakness?

Yes, very much. For Guardians, over the last few years there has been a tremendous amount of clearing and a lot of loss, a lot of grieving, and I’m not just talking about Phoenix or the tribe, but across the world. Many Guardians are preferring to remain right where they are and make their nests really comfortable. There are no steady patterns of growth, but leaps here and there, and a willingness to use any possible excuse for not doing or not being, which is really unfortunate.

And it’s particularly unfortunate because it means you’re relying on your human nature, and you are so not your human nature. Guardians may be in a human shell, but with the right focus, with consistent growth, they are not held by the boundaries of this shell. You don’t have to experience the world as mass consciousness does.

For instance, there is the incredible need that has been showing up over the last three years, two years—years are hard for me—to “people-please” and to be afraid to make mistakes. That is coddling the human, whereas the fact of it is, you’re not human, you’re just visiting. You’re just living in this form for a while.

All of this, meaning this world as you see it, needs boxes. God is a box, for instance. I say Source, I say Universe, but those terms are not interchangeable with “God.” But they make you think of God because of patterns put into you for a very long time, from childhood. You imagine God to be all-pervasive and all-knowing. As an adult you’ve paganized this to become “in all things” and ”a part of all things,” and yet the fact of it is that’s an insult to what Source, to what the Universe is about, because it’s such a limitation.

So many Guardians right now are judging their world based on mass consciousness’s version of what is and isn’t acceptable. And they’re translating who they are and what they are into that language. And I’m saying stop doing that, because as long as you think this [pointing to Lea’s blouse] is red, you’re not going to see everything that goes into making it . . . what color is this? Rust?—and I think that’s very sad. So I remind you as often as I can that this is not what you are, that what you are is so far beyond this. It’s so far beyond this that your construct of “God” is nothing compared to what you truly are.

This experience is a blink. It has happened already. It’s all right. Everything is all right. Don’t get caught in the tar pit of seeing your world just through your eyes.

Is it an issue of being so comfortable with the human, or is it an issue of fear, being afraid to step out into the unknown?

It’s both. Fear makes a person pretty uncomfortable, and you learn early on that, if you’re starting to get uncomfortable, you should back away. But your comfort levels aren’t a good way to judge what you’re actually doing as Spirit. They’re only a way to judge the human experience, and I want you to move away from that.

So what is the antidote? What can Guardians focus on?

Because your human self lives in this world, it is filled up with memories that you think are your truths. This human connects with others, and has its energies cross with others’ energies, and then their free will crosses with others’ free will. Because the whole human experience is very, very real, you need to pay attention to what the human self needs, take care of it, give it what it needs. But what you do not have to do is believe it all the time. What you do not have to do is put its needs first all the time.

You are both getting ready to do something new. You, Paula, will have time alone with your sister, for the first time in forty-plus years. David, you’re going hiking, high up, with people you love. You’re both stretching the envelope. Now stop for a moment, and think about how old you are and compare that to so many people in this world and so many Guardians, even in this work, who aren’t stretching the envelope, who are doing the same things all the time, not making an effort to leave their comfort zone. Even in Leadership, there are those who get pretty uncomfortable when new things come up because they are catering to their human.

The Spirit takes care of you because it needs you, not because it’s afraid of not having you. Do you understand what I’m saying there?

So, as you can tell from this interview so far, the Retreat was a lot of soapboxes for me.

[Laughing] Well, we still appreciated it.

Now that the trip to Hawaii has been rescheduled, you know we would be remiss if we didn’t ask you some questions about the trip.

Is this a Star Gate similar to the ones we have already worked with? I don’t remember us ever working with a Fire Gate before. Maybe it’s just my memory.

There are Star Gates, but there are also planetary Gates. Planetary Gates require the same kind of energy work that a Star Gate does, but a Star Gate is about getting off the planet.

This is the Pacific Star Gate, but it’s the Fire Gate because the Pacific Star Gate has within its energy field a Fire Gate, a Water Gate, an Air Gate, an Earth Gate. It’s just how they work.

The Fire Gate for the Pacific is the primary Gate. It’s not actually in Hawaii; it’s in the ocean, south of the bigger island. But a Fire Gate and a Star Gate also allow that which is of a particular frequency that is aligned with that Gate to move out into the space around it.

All right. These Gates are planetary Gates, and they have everything to do with the spirit of the planet itself.

Quick question: how is your planet doing these days?


Wouldn’t you say this is a time that great balance is needed? Much damage has been done, so it’s a very, very good time to do some planetary healing work. And through the Elemental Gates that is exactly what’s going to be done. Earth healing work through the water, the air, the fire, and guess what Hawaii is about.


Actually very, very active ones. So a Fire Gate, while it does connect with particular points within space, that is not its primary purpose. And it’s not two-way into space; it is only one way and that is to earth. So it is all about stimulating the Earth Spirit herself in particular directions.

Do you remember Lake Titicaca? It was Atlantean, so it had everything to do with early earth, everything to do with the early experiment. Not earth healing, but mass-consciousness healing. The Fire Gate as an Elemental Gate has everything to do with earth healing.

So you might wonder what the people who take part are going to get out of it if it’s not for the people doing the work and the people around the area. I don’t know. We’ve never gotten to a point where we could open Elemental Gates, so we’ll see.

Just for clarification, are you saying that, for instance, this is a Pacific Fire Gate? Are there also Earth, Water and Air Gates associated with the Pacific area, or would those other Gates be in different parts of the world?

There are those associated Gates, but they would not be the primary Gates. Whereas in other parts of the world, it might be a primary Water Gate.

So there may be a primary Water Gate, and there will also be Fire, Earth, and Air Gates, but they will be lesser Gates compared to the primary Gate in the area.

There are four primary Elemental Gates—that’s not accurate; there are six, but just four that work specifically for planetary healing right now. The other two are probably not going to be accessible until the Ascension process is further along—but that’s not the point. So there are four to six primary planetary Gates, and throughout the world there are associated Elemental Gates that are not as powerful and function more locally. The primary Gate is the music—the orchestra—and the subgates are the song of that area.

How does a Star Gate become an Elemental Gate?

It doesn’t. They are set up as either Star Gates or Elemental Gates from the point of origin.

I see. So opening them is similar, but just depends on the function of the Gate.

The Intent is different, but they all have to do with your energy becoming one with that Gate.

So it sounds to me like we’ll be planning trips to open other planetary Gates. That’s exciting.

Well, it depends on what comes out of this one, whether it proves to be a good flow. It’s a Goddess force; it’s very much the feminine energy that is working to manifest more strongly at this time. It’s very good timing for this Gate, but there are still plenty of Star Gates, too, that could be activated. Also, there is something to be said for high-frequency individuals recognizing themselves as a Star Gate. And, yes, there are other planetary Gates that are available, it just depends on what happens with this one.