(Questions for this issue’s interview were submitted by the group which meets for toning in Louisville: Jerry Cook, Jeanean Jacobs, Sheryl Meacham, Michael O’Rourke, Laura Reed, Heidi Shedlow, and Joni Wooldridge. The topic, and even the specific questions, are always discussed with Lea before each interview. This time, since the topic was based on the fall Lifescapes events, Samuel asked that the relevant part of his talk in Lexington be included here as background. That text, in the following two paragraphs, is taken from Frank Schultz’s transcript of the teaching. Questions within quotation marks are from the toning group; additional questions and comments came from the interviewers.)

“Mayan knowledge was based on seeded information. . . . They were piggy-backing on information that had been passed from culture to culture, from even a world that is no longer, at this point, a part of your earth except by cross-over. What would that be? Yes, Atlantis. But where did the Atlanteans get their information? Yes, ultimately from Shining Energy. The idea that the Mayans were capable of basing cycles on something they couldn’t see either means, one, no one knows, so they can say anything they want, or two, they are accessing information from cultures that came before them [Samuel talked about the Mayans and the mistakes and intent of their prophecies.] The human aspect translates it as a very precise and amazing calendar that ends. The spirit-self sees it as a very specific and precise calendar that points to something that brings about a new way of functioning in this world. Some see it as the end of the Plan and Absorption; some see it as nuclear war that makes changes on an atomic level; some see it as disaster and some as opportunity. Which is it? If you prevail it is opportunity. The good news is that it’s not just you. But truly, there aren’t a whole lot of people putting drops into that cup. The good news there is that for this it doesn’t really matter if it is a bit dirty water, or artificial water, because, more or less, it’s a working together of One Mind, One Vision, One Heart.

“No matter how you would choose to translate the human aspect of that knowing, the spiritual aspect of it is that global change is coming—unlike the piddly stuff you thought of as change before. Think about the ages in your past, they’ve already done the destruction; that’s not necessary. Floods, meteors, etc. aren’t needed; it’s already been done. This is something different. It’s not about destruction; it’s about construction. It’s an opening of the mind because of the heart. It is a pulling together. What is going to be required for that to happen? People are wanting change, both sides of the aisle. And change will come about, and I guarantee you that the squeaky wheel wins, so you have before you either oiling the wheel so it doesn’t squeak or being the squeaky wheel and beginning to lead. It’ll be because the masses no longer allow what was. Right now you are on the human version of massive change and I will assure you that the human version is massive destruction. I can tell you it is an atomic destruction, though there is no weapon on your planet that has a global effect. When I say atomic, I am saying energy as you know it. I am not saying the atomic bomb, because it wouldn’t be big enough. The sound weapons you have are not big enough. If you want a massive destructive event (and you don’t want that), then it’s going to come from outside of your world, not from within it.”

“What did you mean by ‘atomic destruction’? Where would this event come from and what would give rise to it?”

The problem with these questions is that they are based on my saying, “This is how it’s going to happen, and that means there is going to be some sort of atomic deconstruction of the world.” But that’s not what I said.

You did speak of it as a possibility, though. And of it being the track we were currently on.

Let me try to give you the picture I was originally trying to describe.

There are two choices. There will be change. It’s going to show up in one of two ways, as a spiritually focused or a physically focused change. If it is a spiritually focused change—an internal change—it will be the heart working with the brain, functioning in a new way, as a result of absorbing new information, and that would be led by Guardians, Guardians who are putting their actions into the Grid to the point that what is currently abnormal in spiritual growth will become normal. There’s a lot involved in making that happen, but world change because of the completion of Sacred Status is a very viable option, and I’m doing everything I can to get you to make that option available to the world.

But the other version is, as will always be the case in form, deconstruction in order to bring about something new.

So, it’s going to happen one of two ways: it’s going to happen as a result of a new way of functioning or in the old way, which is usually fear-based, usually somewhat painful—the breaking down of the old in order to build up the new. Does it need to be an atomic bomb? Or a meteor hitting the earth?—which is more likely. No, and the reason for that is that the type of atomic bomb you use today is much more focused, and it would be sort of like blowing Manhattan off the planet—instead of blowing up the whole country.

That kind of “atomic” is not what I meant. I was speaking of the atomic level of you, the atomic level of form.

Physical reality.

Physical reality. As you know, there are those who have the ability to change their blueprint. Now, that’s very rare, but what is going to happen in the world is that the planetary blueprint will change, and that is the issue. How it’s going to change is the question, and I cannot say “It’s going to happen this way,” because that’s not yet determined.

This raises a couple of questions. You said the change will be led by Guardians.

One of the versions. The one I hope works.

Right, the spiritually focused change will be led by Guardians. What will that leadership look like?

Well, the simplest leadership is you putting those changes into the Grid, hopefully handled in a personal way by recreating your life to function more from the inside out. Everything you do goes into the Grid. Everything you think goes into the Grid. That’s not so scary when you allow yourself to realize that what mass consciousness needs is the okay for a do-over.

The way I usually say it is, Get back up and keep going. If Guardians could fill the Grid with that attitude, that would have a pretty profound effect on what kind of model is out there when big changes come about. And that is already happening. You have had a few years now of being able to look at what is happening in your lives and see it playing out in mass consciousness, knowing that what you do is going to have an effect, so you should choose those things that will make it a positive effect.

That would be the easiest kind of leadership, and it would be wonderful if that was all it took. But until Guardians commit to and become responsible for their effect in the world, it’s not going to happen that way. Until Guardians are willing to recognize that teaching the world to fall and get back up means that they need to fall and get back up, it will not. Guardians find this very difficult, because they unfortunately tend to have the idea that they should never fall. That isn’t going to help the planet at all.

So, at the retreat, I talked about being honest. Look at yourself honestly. Don’t make excuses: “I didn’t really fall, because it wasn’t my fault. Nothing could have happened differently because it wasn’t me and it was. . . .” It’s getting back up and continuing on that is important.

The falling down then actually can be seen as an opportunity.

Exactly. Now that doesn’t mean that I want you to go out and purposefully fall down. That wouldn’t help the Grid. That’s not honest. You help the Grid when you provide an example of hope. And hope is not “Oh, goodie, I can be perfect.” Mass consciousness isn’t that stupid. It’s “I can do my best, but it’s not always going to work and it’s not always going to give me what I want. And sometimes it will cause me to fall on my face. But I can get up and keep going.”

One of the things that is so special about these Guardians—the Phoenix family, as it’s called—is that you get cheered on when you honestly get back up and start over. You cannot practice that in a better place. But it’s not just taking part in the Coffee House where, if you fall on your face, everyone claps anyway. The foundation of the teaching is, you love one another, and that means that you see each other with eyes wide open and appreciate what works and don’t focus on what doesn’t. And you are there to lend a hand when someone needs it.

Putting that into the Grid, as well as the experience of the one who falls.

Absolutely. What would that do for the world, particularly when it has been hit with so many things that are creating anguish, poverty, starvation, gross water loss, and on and on and on, on a planetary scale? It would give hope and help—reaching out that hand and helping someone back up and cheering them on. What would that do for a place like Bangladesh, or other places that you never even think about? If you put that into the Grid, then, on a planetary level, that could well mean help for those in trouble around the world. As a result, you could start to work on other things, such as the kind of waste that you take part in, which doesn’t bother your lifestyle too much but makes life more difficult in countries that don’t have the resources they need because all of their resources are going into creating your indulgent lifestyle. There could be profound effects.

One of the reasons I have difficulty fully believing this is that I see our group at Phoenix as such a tiny portion of the world. When you speak of Guardianship on a larger scale, who does that include?

Guardians are those who are here for a purpose. They are Guardians of the greater Plan, which is, of course, to guide and guard life force across the planet. It doesn’t mean “those people who work with Samuel.” It means those who have come here with a compact to the planet. Now, I work with you and your label as Guardians, but this is not the only way I work in the world. There are, across the world—even in traditional religious arenas—those who have recognized, if not their compact, at least their desire to make things better, and very often the easiest and sometimes only way to express that is through a religious type of outreach. So, there are those across the planet that I work with directly as Samuel, those that I work with indirectly in the greater whole, and even those I’m not working with at all, directly or indirectly, but who are aware and have become activated into their spiritual service on this planet.

Do you care at all to be specific about the size of that total group?

Ultimately—big picture—I work with twelve. On a smaller scale—every one of the twelve has twelve. I’m hesitating in that answer because, first, it’s not a constant number; second, the twelve twelves spread out and end up sounding like 144,000—which is right, more or less, but Christianity has taken that number and perverted it so that it takes on a meaning in some minds that I would not consider accurate at all. What I’ve answered before is 144,000, and let you multiply that yourself. But remember that number is not fixed; it’s also not reached.

These are the ones you work with on a larger scale?


And doesn’t include all those Guardians whom you do not work with.


And so the actual number of people putting their experience into the Grid is . . .

Hopefully, much larger. But putting something into the Grid is only made powerful by consciously doing it.

You’ve talked in the past about native and non-native earth energies. I think you have said that the Guardians that you work with as Samuel are primarily composed of non-native earth energy.


What is the Guardianship as a whole mostly comprised of?

Non-native earth energies working at different levels of earth experience. For the most part, non-native earth energy does not have a whole lot of earth experience and isn’t a part of that greater wheel of life after life. But they would have a certain number of life experiences simply because if you’re coming to help in the world, then you’re going to need to be in the world to do that most effectively. There are those who have very little earth experience compared to those who have chosen to come here many times. So it’s the amount of wisdom gleaned from earth experience that makes the non-native energy more effective, or less.

Is there a greater concentration at this point in time of non-native earth energies as Guardians on the planet?


Is this more than any other previous transition?

This is the last time of transition.

So is the non-native earth energy in form on the planet the cosmic intervention that we’re seeking? Is this spiritual energy from outside this dimension of form to bring about the change?

Yes, it is, but it’s not what most people think of when they think cosmic intervention.

So it’s more accurate to say that the non-native earth energies that are in form are the help.

Non-native earth energy in your form.

Do they bring about the change more quickly because the native earth energies get more bogged down in the wheel of karma?

Yes. But look at your own life. Non-native earth energy gets bogged down, too.

You’ve talked to us a lot about action versus drama. Non-native earth energy can get pretty heavily into drama.

And what is required for somebody to get into drama? The requirement is you’re only focused on yourself.


Exactly so. So if you want to be a part of changing the world in the most efficient and powerful way—the quickest way—you want to work from within without ego. If you catch yourself functioning out of ego—you might recognize it because of dramatics, either with you or with everyone around you—then you can say, “Hmm, must be a reflection of me; maybe I’m being too dramatic, too.” That kind of ego function—me, me, me, me, me; mine, mine mine—is tell-tale of those who are slowing down the whole process.

It seems paradoxical that so often you say we need to get over our egos, to die to them, but at the same time you tell us how important and special we are.

I don’t think it’s a paradox at all. If you are coming from spirit looking at form, you’re going to understand. If you are looking at it through the eyes of form, it’s going to inflate your ego. I try not to talk to your form very often. I try to talk to your spirit all the time.

But know this: I never forget how hard it is. I know that it is; I know that there is a lot of doubt that goes with it; I know that there is a lot of outside influence that makes it very hard for all kinds of reasons. But you are not dumped here and asked to do the impossible. Look for, ask for, help, and remember what you can give to each other. That’s going back to an earlier part of this interview where I discussed the power that you give each other by being that supportive and strong hand when it’s needed.

We have some questions from the group on another topic. “How is our and the planet’s DNA evolving as we move toward Sacred Status?” And, since DNA to me has a very specific scientific meaning, if you’d explain “planetary DNA” that might be helpful. I don’t recall your using that phrase.

I don’t. That’s someone asking a question because of things they’ve heard elsewhere. I use the word blueprint. So, how is the blueprint changing? You are hopefully going to reach a point where you become powerful enough to affect your own blueprint.

DNA, literally, is a signal, much like a train on the tracks: which way is it going to go? Well, the signal is, green light, stay on the track; red light, don’t continue on this one. It’s the signal that says the brain’s going to accept or reject this, the signal that says, because of that accepting or rejecting, the body will function this way or not. And it’s only one piece of a whole lot of information that comes through to make that happen.

You’re not changing your blueprint when toxic dumps make your groundwater bad and cause a generation—even two or three generations—of mutations. That is the result of an event. That’s why blueprint is a better way to say it, because the blueprint involves form; it involves brain-body; it involves the evolution of the human structure into a new being, but it also involves a whole lot more. And when I refer to blueprint, it is a spirit-led, an entity-led, function. There are boundaries according to your blueprint, but you are evolving, if you will, spiritually to the point that you will be able to adjust that blueprint for greater function in the world.

Understand this: DNA is form-based. The planetary spirit doesn’t have DNA. It’s spirit function. So “planetary DNA” doesn’t work, but “planetary blueprint” does.

“What kind of effect is the earth’s DNA [blueprint] change having on Guardians and mass consciousness? And can we access and use the new function of the blueprint?”

In 4:3:2 it was all about trying to find a place of balance that was equally the spiritual earth and the spiritual life force—humans—so that when you would rise to a higher level or a greater frequency, you were sort of stabilized there until the planet met that frequency as well. That was 4:3:2, and many who would be reading this would recognize that illustration.

5:3:2 changed that. 5:3:2 makes that question inaccurate, because there isn’t a determined pathway. Free will, Guardianship, Grid, composite function, unity—all of those work to change the future, and the only issue really is what can be done to better manage the resources you have in order to bring about changes that will represent the completion of the Plan.

What is the number-one answer to that? Toning, because it changes your frequency. It changes your ability to manipulate the blueprint.

“How is Dragon work helping move the earth to Sacred Status?”

What is a Dragon, in Dragon work? Dragon force, what is that?

It’s seeded energy.

Seeded what, though? What is it that’s seeded? Remember that Guardians’ purpose is to guide and guard life force. Life force is seeded into the planet, but where is the Dragon work seeded into the world? At the areas that have the greatest probability of supporting civilization, in order to work with the greatest number of people. It is an evolved version of seeding life force into the planet, because it was seeding the seed of spiritual life force. It is the seed of the greatest treasures within humanity. The ability to love—”The greatest of these is love”—has been a standard rule even in the most ancient civilizations.

Because of this seeding?

Yes, because of that. It is a desire for unity. Yes, it gets perverted into rulership over others and that sort of thing, but it also allows for individuals to come together for a greater good, even though some will come together for a lesser good. All of the best of spirit in this world—the power of Source in form—the highest attainable function is seeded in Dragon work, waiting for the time that humanity reaches the point that the next step can happen. That happens because at the final transition—that would be now—Guardians are going to be functioning at a much higher frequency, putting into the world—read that “Grid”—the example of what is possible. This may affect humanity only as little ripples, but opens the door to that seed being released, and no more ripples being needed.

If across the planet all of Dragon energy was released, you would have achieved the completion of Sacred Status—because the effect it has on the world, even though at first it’s chaos, is to bring about an opening of the heart everywhere—everywhere. Consciousness has been raised in China, in the Amazon, in the countries touched by the major river force in Europe. It is a very beautiful and attainable work. And you’re already doing things that are speeding along the process. It may not seem like too much to you to awaken the Dragon force underground [in the Yucatán], but that’s very high-level work.

So, a lot is being done. More is needed, but if you look, you can see that the Dragon work has done more to change your world than even Heart Portals and Crown Portals did.

I think one of the questions submitted for Samuel Responds would fit in here. “It has been easier to follow events in Mexico and make a connection with the working in the Yucatán than the Rhineland Dragon working. What effects have you observed as a result of the Rhineland work?”

The biggest is the current economic failure. Now, I’m going to speak of extremes here, and they’re rather general. Germany, and western Europe throughout the Rhineland, has a very protected technical and economic lifestyle, not as consumer-driven as the United States or Britain. The economic melt-down going on, instead of causing chaos and great damage in Germany, in the Netherlands, what you are seeing instead is a country pulling together and not falling prey to the dramatic and the—well—dangerous. It’s a very beautiful example of managing chaos. This kind of response is always a choice, but it’s a choice that is rarely taken.

On the other hand, there is also a large rise in focus on tyranny and dictatorship, and this is not a good thing; it’s not making the right choice. There is more of that going on now in neo-Nazi and Fascist groups, and even the government there is affected as it acts more conservatively on the world stage. Right now the German government is trying to shift away from the European Union, so that it is not so affected by those who have made poor choices. And that’s not a good thing. Economic problems allowed Hitler to rise.

So, at any rate, I see that Germany is reacting exactly like the other Dragon areas you have worked through. Look at the news with your eyes open and you’re going to see it.

The last question from the Louisville group: “What does empowering the masses look like?”

Well, spiritually speaking, it looks a whole lot like the kind of energy produced at this last retreat: a willingness to look at oneself and choose a direction that doesn’t aim at every pothole—see the potholes coming and shift around them. When you are forced to look at yourself, you have a choice. The empowered choice is, “Not perfect, but doing my best to function in love.”

The disempowered choice is, “All of this should be going the way I want it to go, because that’s the only way I feel safe.” At last year’s retreat, there was a whole lot of “This isn’t going the way I want it to, and that’s the only way I feel safe.” At this one, that attitude was not there.

That is important. Think about how that would affect humankind, if that same heart-centered action, rather than fear, came first. Trust before control, rather than just control.

On a physical level, the empowerment is first going to show up as a very strong tendency to manipulate for one’s own good, but that is going to shift as humankind wakes up and listens to some of the squeaky wheels who are saying, “Path of doom, path of doom. Don’t go there.” But then it will sound more like “Here is the evidence that humans have created this global warming, and here is the change that is going on in science as scientists are realizing that the laws of physics that they’ve worked on so long aren’t necessarily all the laws there are.” As you, even in the limitations of form, are able to access more, you’re going to see empowerment in every corner of life. And it’s about trust, not fear.

A very quick explanation: science is looking right now at quantum function. It is making real in the mass consciousness of technologically advanced nations the idea that your atomic structure can fully release its pattern, shift into another place, and then return. Now, the very miracle of releasing the pattern has not even been thought of yet. Right now it’s just so exciting that the matter goes somewhere else. But that’s creating the avenue for multi-dimensional function here on the planet.

Now, it’s only going to come about if you do not automatically throw every bit of fear into that and you are instead able to trust that there is a greater pattern holding it all together. And you are making these changes in a very timely way.

Can you imagine what empowered humanity functioning with those abilities could be doing? I can only hope.