The guest interviewer for this issue is Marion Kee, whom most of our readers recognize as an astute questioner of Samuel in Lifescapes and Retreats. She traveled from her home in Washington to conduct the interview in person.


You mentioned in the Winter 2020 interview that too many Guardians are still harboring core issues and this shows up in the world as chaos. Does that refer primarily to the Guardians who know you as Samuel?

No. All Guardians.

What are the reasons for this inability to resolve stubborn core issues?

Service to self instead of service to others.

Are the Guardians that work with you doing anything better or worse than the Guardians who don’t work with you as Samuel?

They’re all working with me.

I mean specifically working with us to get over core issues.

I’m working with others to do the same thing. The Plan and Guardians are the same throughout the planet insofar as what they’re compacted to do.

What I’m trying to get at here is motivation, because in the presence of free will and Guardians’ stubbornness, I think that only motivation is really going to help. So what changes could we make in ourselves and our behaviors that could offer the best return in this area for us and for our world?

As I said, the biggest difference is choosing service to self instead of service to others, and I want you to think about that for a moment. They’re both important, but service to self is not the direction that’s going to help the world Ascend.

Service to self is important on first Awakening because separation creates tremendous amounts of drama in the lives of mass consciousness and in the lives of Guardians. And at first awakening, that sense of being alone, in a world where nobody sees things the way you do is very disheartening, and results in a lot of protective needs, which means a person stays at Awakening and doesn’t easily move into Activation.

Activation is where service to others begins and that is where, for Guardians, their true work begins. However some Guardians never get to their work, and some Guardians choose to only see through the lens of what they’re going to get out of it.

Some end up being satisfied, which I find a very backward thing for Guardians. They allow small digressions from what they know is best to become big lifestyle decisions without realizing it.

These things apply to mass consciousness and Awakening Guardians. It’s not what you should be experiencing, but changing it requires truly believing that you are the creator of your universe, that this reality is a reflection of what’s going on with you, and when you resolve you, you see this reality very differently. You find that place where you take care of yourself so you can do more in the world—not wanting to be protected from the world. Do you see that difference?

So, what kind of motivation allows for that? One thing only—and it’s kind of a problem in itself—and that is that you recognize the Source within yourself, and resolve that sense of dichotomy. That dichotomy—that separation—is from a lack of wholeness, oneness. So the motivation is feeling—being—that whole one, and then you naturally fall into taking charge of your world, serving others, and taking care of yourself to do that, rather than complaining “All of my life is a drama,” and “Everything is working against me,” and “I am filled with questions about what it is I’m here for,” which is exactly what happens when somebody is not connected from within, but seeking desperately to find connections without.

Getting in touch with a deeper answer involves a lot of responsibility, and to avoid that sometimes more questions get asked, even looking for another teacher.

“I want a different teaching that lets me just sit back and ‘get’ it all.”

And eat onions and garlic.

And cheese and steaks.

I never understood why it’s so hard, but it’s because of my expectations, you see? I have expectations that Guardians are functioning close enough to Source that they experience the difference in their energetic bodies when they take these things on.

Living in the world as a human is pretty complicated.

It’s not; maybe in the Western world and cultures.

Is that also partly responsible for people not resolving these core issues? We get distracted by the world?

Never forget that you are doing what you want to be doing. You do what is important to you. There is no such thing as “I do not have time to …,” fill in the blank, because you have time to do what really matters to you, not, however, to do what doesn’t really matter to you but you feel like it should and so …

There is self-judgment, and choices that you make as a result of self-judgment that distract, because you look for that which agrees with your view of yourself and therefore your world. There are a thousand and one reasons that you cannot take ten minutes of quiet time, or feel connected to Source, or hear the singing of the world, or see the colors of auric force, or have that sense of wholeness and love that emanates out of every being on the planet, because that doesn’t fit your world view.

What are other potential positive results of our continuing to clear core issues?

Imagine that you have a beautiful home on the seashore. It has a lovely view of the beach, the ocean, and the sky. You love that place. You love sitting with a cup of tea in the evening and watching the sun set through the windows. Then comes hurricane season, and—oh, my gosh—a massive hurricane hits, with pounding rain and horrible wind beating up against the house. You worry if everything is going to be all right. Finally it’s over, but your windows are filthy. You can hardly see out. You can no longer see that beautiful sunset or enjoy that beautiful view. It’s no longer relaxing to sit with your cup of tea and look out at night. So do you curse the storm because that storm has ruined everything for you? Or do you just get some newspaper and vinegar and clean your windows?

Core issues are the dirt on those windows. You can see everything you want when they’re clean and clear. And there are even things you can do to cheat—diet is one of those. It pushes things along. It’s like double-duty vinegar. It’s going to clean even faster. What happens though is that people do not want to put out the effort. “Oh, you know, I can clean from the inside, but I cannot do it from the outside because I cannot get up on a ladder. What if I just clean what I can reach and leave the rest dirty?” Well you tell me, what happens? You can see a little, but those dirty windows keep getting in the way. Clean the windows.

People think it’s too hard because they forget that it’s like an onion, made of multiple layers, and when you’ve cleared off one layer, you’ve got to go a little deeper. People clear it once—spit at that window and rub it with their hands and say, “All right, I did it! And it was hard, too!”

“I can see a little corner of the beach!”

Yes. Well, for a lot of people that’s enough, that little corner of the beach, but if you want more, keep cleaning. And the motivation, I would say, is not only that you get your view back, but a new you comes out of it, one that is stronger, happier, and more connected to the whole. So if that matters to you, keep persevering.

The journey here is always going to have its hurricane seasons, its challenges, but your responses to those challenges say everything about what you want in your world, because you are creating it. You are the center of it. It is all a reflection of you. Your house may be in torment, but you are not, because you are functioning from an overview. And that’s what clearing those core issues does: it gives you that overview. Instead of riding over the potholes on a skateboard—boom-boom, boom-boom—it’s more like you are in a tank just sailing along.

In terms of our own process of Ascension, I don’t know any Guardians who actually want to fail to keep their promise to this world and “get a bad grade.” I think some people are confused about their personal Ascension process and that that affects creation because …

All right, I’m not sure I understand that. A personal Ascension process?

You keep working on yourself, and then you figure out that you’re bigger than just this one projection and you realize that you have responsibilities as a creator towards this world. And getting stuck at that point, kind of freezing up and saying, “Well that’s way too much. I’ll just stay as comfortable as I can here.”

“If I wait, maybe it will go away.” But you see, nobody who is stuck like that thinks they are stuck like that. But people get satisfied, and that’s obnoxiously dangerous—both of those things. It’s dangerous and it’s obnoxious.

I’ll tell you what’s very different about my work and why it is so incredibly unpopular: I don’t give you “outs.” I don’t give you the easy way that will not help your entity—that’s small-e entity—at all, but will allow you to be satisfied and maybe even have glimpses of power here and there. I don’t work with those Guardians, and definitely not mass consciousness. And I promise you that when people touch in [to my work] and leave, it always comes down to the fact that they think it’s too much work. Always.

But I know what you came for and I know what this Plan is, and I know what’s needed for it. And I’m not going to prop you up and tickle you into complacency. I’m going to say “Yes, it is painful; keep going. Yes, it can be hard; keep going. Yes, it can be wonderful! Keep going.” I try to be nice about it, but you come into this work knowing you are not a just-awakened Guardian. You come into this work knowing that you’re about serving others, and when you don’t, you feel guilty and you make excuses. You justify and you separate, and you make it okay to do that so you don’t have to do the work.

So a Guardian who does that is then not living their true self, and they’re being inauthentic?

Well, yes, but the thing is they know it.

And so at some level they are miserable but may not realize it.

Oh, they realize it. If you have anger in your life, if you are not happy, if you are not functioning in oneness and wholeness then you will have separation in your life, and you will have anger and unhappiness.

I’m going to be very blunt here: You’re either functioning consciously with trust and creatorship, or you’re not. If you are, it does not mean everything is all right on the outside, but it does mean everything’s all right on the inside. And what you’re seeing are those who expect it be all right on the outside to make it all right on the inside, when it’s really the other way around. And there are those who are using questioning as their justification for not pursuing the inner work.

There are Guardians who have made their life around not getting any further than their own needs, and are perfectly able to justify that to themselves.

You teach Guardians in your work to eat a vegan diet so they can function at their highest spiritually. But eating vegan has the additional benefit of reducing our individual contribution to climate change.

It does.

Please speak about the impact on this world from Guardians consciously putting vegan dietary awareness into the Grid and out into mass consciousness.

People are much more aware now of not being bigoted and prejudiced about the many different isms—not religion, not skin color, not cultural bias, not gender bias, on and on and on. And they’re finding that the world is so much better without those preset notions of me versus you; instead, they recognize the value of wholeness.

Now you may be wondering why I am going off on that tangent when the question is about being vegan, but I want you to remember how good it feels to be one with others. One of the things veganism does is open you up to the rest of the animal kingdom in a way you could not experience otherwise, because you have to turn off multiple switches in order to eat animals. They’re too high a frequency; there are even some plants you cannot eat because they’re too high, as well. Animals are too close to you, so in order to eat them you must make them less, which is what Nazi Germany did when killing off homosexuals and Jews and disabled people.

Now, am I saying carnivores are equivalent to Nazis?

They are if you’re a cow.

Well, I like that answer—if you were a cow, you would say yes. You have to miss out on the opportunity to increase your heart to see the world as a wholeness that you are a part of.

So, when partaking of animal products, first you have to switch off a natural compassion to all that is around you. You have to switch off that sense of oneness that “we have the same heart.” You have to switch off that sense that killing others is to be avoided. You’ve got to lie to yourself and say such things as, “Well, it’s survival. If I was dropped out of an airplane into the forest I would have to kill little animals to live,” which is not true either. If you eat animal products, you have to disengage massive parts of your soul. Now, turn that around: by being vegan you get to reengage those parts. So I would say that is vital.

The second thing, however, is that the factory-farming methods that have become popular across the world—it’s not just the U.S.; India, for instance, does as much—these mass farming methods are killing your earth.

Does that include raising plants with the use of toxic substances?

Well, most of what is grown ends up in an animal. Land is cleared so an animal can graze; plants are grown so an animal can eat them. And they’re given hormones, and genetic changes are made. And chemicals are used on their food so it can be stored until it’s fed to the animals. It’s a horrible cycle.

I promise you, the earth will win in this game, because she is by far bigger than the puny humans on her surface. But until the earth finally says, “All right, we’re getting rid of the humans,” it could become pretty scorched and unbearable for the humans, and it will all have been caused by their own hands.

Everything you do affects everything around you. Do no harm. And that applies to how you eat, what you say, and what you think.

What you gain from veganism is you get your soul back. What the earth gains through veganism is she gets her life in fullness back. What’s to lose? That’s the question. What’s to lose? At the least, don’t eat animals or products from animals. And if you can’t stop, at least cut out a day, or the weekends. If you stop eating meat regularly, even for short periods, that will start working on you, and your consciousness will change as your soul grows back. Your attitudes, your friends, your social circle will all change. You will become happier, stronger, and you’ll know what it’s like to serve others rather than yourself.

You’ve spoken of our Light Bodies from time to time. Every time we do a ritual, you say it’s designed to have a big effect on our Light Bodies. How would you define or characterize the Light Body?

The Light Body is the interface of a small-e entity functioning in form.

Does every being of Spirit in form have a Light Body?


Is the mineral kingdom included in that?

Yes. That’s why you can hear your crystals, because of that interface.

And hear what the ravens are saying.

That’s right.

So it’s like your Light Body is functioning with their Light Body and you get it?

Your Light Body connects with the part of their Light Body that has the same frequency. So it’s not a full hand-on-hand connection, but where there is a connection, the like goes through the Source Field to translate. And the like is the interface, spirit to spirit.

What is the function of our Light Body in our work in this world?

To take over. It is to become the means through which you function and see the world. Until that happens you’re seeing it through the physical, which is the dirty window we talked about earlier.

How does our being clear and clean in our physical form impact that function? The dirty window had to do with core issues, which was the mental-emotional.

Not necessarily. Some core issues are very physical, but it depends on what the ultimate blueprint is. But go on.

So when we’re clean and clear in our physical form, it implies that we are eating vegan, doesn’t it?

Well, I will tell you that you can be unclear while vegan, but you cannot be clear without being vegan. You cannot eat like energy and be clear and whole. But being vegan alone isn’t going to do it, because if you live on processed junk food and have a really unhealthy body that’s going to affect your mind, and that’s going to have an effect on the way you see the world, and that’s going to have an effect upon what you are and not allow you to connect into your Light Body. So vegan alone isn’t it, but being consciously vegan is.

If you are consciously vegan you will not eat those chips.

You will not live on them. You will not eat out of habit; you will eat with purpose.

I have a question for you. Are you seeing a lot of Guardians who are not functioning as vegans?

I don’t know, because where I live there are few whom I know to be Guardians. The ones I know best in your work are eating vegan. When we’re on a trip some people will say “It’s nice to be eating vegan again.” And there are other Guardians whom I’ve asked, and they are not vegans.

At higher Densities (e.g., fifth and sixth), how does our Light Body function differently than it did previously?

Let me remind you that sixth Density is a very, very high frequency, and it’s very, very rare here. You start having choices that don’t relate to earth all that much, so I generally prefer not to add it in to our discussions. It starts people thinking “Oh, I’m sixth Density.” Oh, gosh, no!

The world made a Density change from third to fourth, but the problem is that many people are holding on to their timelines that involve fear, and they’re still functioning at third rather than moving into fourth.

The first thing to think about is functioning without fear, because where you’re functioning with fear you are adding to energy that keeps mass consciousness at third Density, even though everything’s at fourth.

As long as there is fear, the fourth Density in its fullness will not resonate. For example, let’s say it’s Frank’s birthday—it’s not really. At seven o’clock everyone’s getting together to celebrate, then it will really feel like his birthday, but it was still his birthday all day.

Fourth Density has to do with a very large choice. At fourth Density people have begun to move out of themselves and their ego orientation into serving others. It’s a major spiritual choice: “Am I going to serve myself? Am I going to serve others?”

Now, I want to clarify something about fourth Density. The difficult part of fourth Density is compassion; that doesn’t sound like it should be a problem, but if you combine compassion with service to self, you’re going to have bright, shining leaders who motivate others—they might run a hospital; they might be massive motivational speakers—but they’re doing it for the money, for the fame, for the success in the world’s eyes, whereas if they are serving others, they might also be motivating the thousands and running the hospital as a great leader, but it’s not about what they’re getting out of it. And that’s a choice.

I don’t like to get political, but I’m going to use your president as an example. He is a leader serving self. And it’s a very definite choice; he has said he is doing that because that is what good business does. That is what happens in politics—serving oneself. It’s a very specific choice: “I’ll show I have the compassion to lead that hospital, to help the homeless, because maybe I’ll get more likes on social media,” or “I will get paid more for making this happen,” whatever. It’s still compassion, but it’s the compassion that serves oneself.

So you have the good people who go out and determine what this homeless population needs, when realistically it is not what the homeless people themselves would say they want. It’s still compassion, but it’s compassion gone wrong. It’s compassion that serves oneself, and that holds most people in fourth Density.

Fifth Density will still have at its lowest point some of the highest overflow of fourth Density because that’s how the Densities work. Fifth Density is where I want Guardians to be able to function. And some are; I’m sitting with some who are. Fifth Density isn’t about chaos out in the world being tamed; it’s about chaos inside the self being tamed. It’s not about the world at fifth Density; it’s about the choices you are making moment by moment. Fifth Density gives you choices about functioning at the higher levels of your human self, functioning with multiple timelines in your human self. It’s being able to function in several dimensions—well at least more than this dimension—while still in your human self. It’s massive; it’s very big change. It is so scary because it is so different, and it’s accessible only by changing states of consciousness, which is not a natural thing for the human self to do. It can cause a greater sense of separation and loneliness and all of those things that we talked about to begin with when somebody is in the very beginning stages of it.

Nevertheless as your energy functions more steadily and consistently in the fifth-Density frequencies, your ability to create makes massive changes. You become by far more adept in a world that adapts to you rather than you to it.

In sixth Density you choose if you are form or not. You are functioning with elevated consciousness outside of world service. You are holding the Solar Guardian consciousness within you. The world functions through you. It does not get stuck inside of you.