Because of the peculiarities of the Mayan calendar, and also because of some psychic predictions, there has been a lot of concern about dire events taking place in 2012. Is there anything in the larger picture, unseen by us, that justifies this kind of concern?

Sure there is, but it is on a different timeline projection. Remember that looking into the future is a very iffy thing. What you’re really looking at is how many of the different pathways lead to the same thing. There aren’t many who can see that; even those considered prophets usually see only one or two pathways. These pathways are what I would call time lines or possible futures. But there are many more, and your best prediction is going to consider where the most time lines are going. They’ll all be just a little bit different, but you look for a general direction. And although there was a time in which predictions for this time would have foretold great destruction, that’s not the time line now. So the question is, How did it change?


Yes. Not simply with this transition, but with an absolute focus over time. If Sacred Status had been completed earlier, then that prediction would have worked just fine, but Sacred Status is not going to come about through massive destruction. That does not mean that massive destruction is not possible as long as the majority of humans continue to believe that pain means gain and suffering brings wisdom. So I do not see the world ending as has been predicted based on the Mayan calendar. But I definitely would see that if, between now and the end of the Mayan calendar, the majority of people in this culture—not just this country, this culture—do not stop believing that change has to be the result of something bad, if they could stop believing that humanity learns and grows and changes only as a result of suffering through painful, difficult, experiences, then the culture would not need that.

So there are two answers.

When you say “this culture,” are you talking about western culture?

Yes, but it’s a little more involved than that. There is western thinking in places all over the planet, but there are also places that it has had no effect. You visited one of them on the trip to India. Western thinking is moving there, but it’s not there yet. So I’m referring to ways of thinking more than to geographic location.

In the last interview, you said that Guardians could overwhelm the negativity in mass consciousness.


So presumably that’s what is needed.

Remember what it is Guardians do, what they put into the Grid and what that does for humanity. It opens a door. It doesn’t push anyone through it, but if that door is opened repeatedly, the idea that change and growth can arise out of passion and joy can become as accepted, as popular, as the dragons that you’re seeing in the world right now. Then that change will happen.

You once said that learning through pain was put into the Grid as a result of humanity’s experience in Atlantis.

Yes, in the reworking of the Plan as a result of the Atlantean experience, a memory of that catastrophe became the foundation of the idea that if you do something terrible that results in pain, you avoid the pain by not doing it again, thus making the pain beneficial.

But going back to the question, Guardians open the door. Everything you do, everything you say, everything you think makes it possible for mass consciousness to do the same. I keep saying this, but Guardians don’t seem to get it; that is so scary. And if there are enough Guardians consciously putting into the Grid that change does not have to come about by way of hardship, then hardship is not going to be required.

Some Guardians tend to be reclusive. They tend to be loners. But does it make a difference if they go out into the world and through consciously working with Intent, Thought, Word and Deed get in touch with mass consciousness, or does that not matter?

No, it doesn’t matter. The idea is that with a common thought you bring about that change. It’s always better to work in unity, more powerful. That’s one of the reasons you have a newsletter, you have a website—because that helps create that common thought.

Also, not all Guardians tend to be reclusive, even if they are somewhat loners.

So if change through joy is so integral to moving forward in a positive way, why isn’t it the focus for all Guardians at Phoenix to do that?

You were at Lexington’s last Play Night, right?


How many people were there?

Not nearly enough. About six.

Right. And yet you laughed, you won, lost, enjoyed, socialized. If you can’t get Guardians to go and play, how do you expect a teaching program to bring that about?

Going back to the change not requiring difficulty and hardship, it seems that a large part of where we’ve got ourselves economically, materially, has to do with overindulgence, borrowing from the future to live in luxury, and that suggests that the best “fix” for going forward would be a period of austerity and hardship, so to speak.

I think that you are experiencing that period of austerity and hardship now. Unfortunately, the primary structure in your society says the more money you have the better a person you are, and I don’t see that changing, because those who hold the money strings, so to speak, aren’t being affected by it. But as for that bigger picture, many—not everybody world-wide, and not even within this country—many are experiencing that austerity and that lack, and they are making changes by simplifying, cutting back and trying to be thrifty instead of greedy, and they’re getting much good out of it. But the bad news is, it’s just going with the idea that “suffering brings wisdom.”

What I see as very, very helpful is the revolutions that are springing up nowadays. Occupy Wall Street, for instance, where people are standing up and rarely getting shot down. They are creating a small kind of community, they are changing awareness; they are representing a good type of transition, because the change they’re bringing about doesn’t require suffering—unless you think that standing up for what you believe is suffering. Which, of course, a lot of people do believe—a lot of Guardians do. But I see that as a very positive way of bringing about change as opposed to saying “Let’s be greedy and steal money from the masses, and cheat and cause economical collapse.” That kind of protest is a good thing. It had to happen, and it needs to keep happening.

The second part of the question was “How would you describe the major energy influences on the earth and life force here during the remainder of 2012?”

Well, first you need to realize that there is so much happening right now that it’s pretty silly to say “this is what it’s going to look like.” On the other hand, something that is having a very profound effect on Guardians and on the earth is this energy that is bringing about a spiritual-human hybrid—that’s so not the right word—kind of change. I did not see that coming, but I like it.

Can you give an example of what you mean by “hybrid,” if that isn’t the word you mean?

Up to now, the costume has been human, but you are a spiritual being inside that human self, and Toning has been given as a means of helping that physical self, the form, be able to increase and experience higher frequencies of energy without destroying that form because in this realm, form rules.

Now, granted, Guardians rarely choose humanity’s wheel of life but usually come at specific times of transition. Because of that, it’s not so easy to say that they are spirit working in human form and dealing with all of the issues of humanity. Frankly, Guardians tend to deal more with the issues that come from hearing both that spiritual self wanting and that human self wanting, and those issues have much more to do with the conflict of those desires than with one or the other aspect ruling.

Still, what’s happening right now is that those who function and have learned how to function at very high frequencies are having their physical essence transformed into what appears will be a fully spiritual self able to manage the physical self, so that spirit rules form, rather than the other way around. I say “looks like” because there aren’t examples of that yet. What there are instead are lots of issues around form stuff, because form is kicking and screaming with everything it’s got in order to not lose itself.

As the form kicks and screams, will the weaknesses tend to show up more?

As the form is kicking and screaming, issues will show up more. Don’t you just love that? Yes, weaknesses, but not just in the way the physical body reacts—illness—but also weaknesses in the mental-emotional self. Now and probably through the summer solstice Guardians can expect to go through a pretty hard time emotionally speaking. And what I say to that is . . .

Let it go. Get over it.

That’s right. The transformational energy will be a very major effect on the planet for at least the first half of the year. But if that solstice turnaround does what it does to energy every other year—and I did say “if”—then that means that, come the solstice, that merged being will be leaning much further toward the spirit side than on the human side, to the point that some very positive change should come about.

Having said that, here in America it is an election year, and that means that there are going to be all kinds of divisive tricks put into play. Once again, Guardians need to be aware of this ahead of time and start working on ways to change that without its having to be a painful and divisive process. Election years really do throw things off because you’re not getting the real version of what people are like. You just get a really good dose of what politics is like.

You say Guardians should find ways to change that. Are you meaning energetically or through the things we can do in the world? I’m sure you’re going to say both.

Yes. Personally, because everything you think and say and do opens the door for that to happen in the world as a whole. So change your thinking. If what you’re going to be seeing is a whole lot of divisiveness, what does that mean you want to be living? Unity. Oneness. Constant awareness of being the same under the skin and of the power of working together as one. There are many, many ways to bring that out. All you have to do is keep that in the forefront of your consciousness. Put a little note on your bathroom mirror, and on your computer that says “Think unity.”

What I’m hearing is not to denigrate one political party over another.

Absolutely. Don’t fall into the trap of divisiveness. And your whole political system is all about that. It didn’t used to be. It wasn’t the original plan, it’s what it has become.

But I want to shake our senator by the neck and say “I want someone representing me in Congress too.” Neither party seems to feel guilty that, despite its majority being very slight at best, they represent those who voted for them exclusively, forgetting that they are the repre­sent­atives of all the people.

They are representing their party instead of their people, and that’s wrong.

Moving on: A topic in the Lifescapes last year was the function of Creators and Patterners. What will you be doing this year to set up Creator/Patterner couples?

Well, one misunderstanding is that I am setting up those couples. Creators and Patterners will be setting them up, and what I will be doing is appreciating that they are there. The question is, are there any at this point? That Lifescapes, when this comes out, will have been long past, and at the time of this interview I don’t see more than there were then. It’s something that should be a natural process, but what’s been happening instead is that Guardians have been hibernating, being reclusive instead of being out there amongst other Guardians.

The place right now where those kind of relationships should be showing up is in the Leadership in all the cities. That would be the easiest place for it to happen, but guess what. Everybody’s pretty much tending to their own fires; that’s good in that it keeps things going, but it doesn’t bring change.

It probably goes against human nature in that like attracts like. It’s probably easier for Patterners to get together than it is for a Patterner and Creator to get together.

True. Usually Patterners get really frustrated at Creators, because the Patterner wants to see it complete and the Creator wants to get it started, wants to get it out there, but isn’t as likely to follow it through. A Patterner can take it and run and make it happen, and can get really frustrated at Creators for not taking more responsibility, for not helping, for not doing more.

For starting stuff that they don’t finish.

Right, exactly. And even in the Leadership some of that shows up. It’s amazing.

What will it take for people to function as Creators or Patterners in all of their projections?

This question seems to be based on a different understanding of working through projections than I was intending to describe in a previous interview. This question seems to be talking more about working through other dimensions than working through projections, because it’s not unusual for me to say that once this projection has mastery it has access to others. Well, once a Creator or Patterner has mastery, it’s going to do the very same thing: it’s going to connect into those other Creator-Patterner projections out of the original twelve. Does that make sense?

Remembering that I have said that if you think of the twelve Patterners and Creators as the numbers on a clock, you can say noon is Creator and one is Patterner, and two is Creator and three is Patterner, and so forth for six pairs. And that Creator at noon has a Group of Twelve that comes out of it, and each of those has twelve that come out of it. It starts giving access to those projections.

The original clock face—twelve, one, two, et cetera—those are dimensional changes, not projection changes.

What you said at that time was that everything, for the most part, was functioning behind the scenes.


Whereas I think this question seems to be assuming that it’s in form but it’s going to be playing out through all of the projections.

It goes well with “When are you going to create these Creator-Patterner relationships?” Assuming that, of course, I’m the one who is doing the work here, right? No. You are.

So how will the capability to function as a Creator-Patterner couple affect our world and your work?

Wow, how would it not?

Maybe the question I should ask is, What does this Creator-Patterner relationship look like in our world?

Well, thank you, Jerry.

Well, Jerry and I tend to think alike.

All right, I’ve got four very high-frequency people here. What do you think?

Much more manifestation.

By far more manifestation without having to have your back up against the wall to make it happen.

And for change to be constantly embraced.

With change not being so scary because change would be a natural flow out of that relationship. Yes.

What I’m not hearing is what I was talking about at the beginning, which is something that is very needed.


So much more unity. How would that change things?

If there are differences, the opposites would work together.

Good. Actually opposites work together well.

And this happens in the world because we put it into the Grid?

Exactly, but it will also happen in the world, because a large number of Creator-Patterner working relationships will have a rock-in-the-pond effect to change things even unconsciously, without there being consciousness that that change is going out there.

Another topic was the use of the frequency of 528 hertz to enhance manifestation. At one point, you mentioned that groups coming together to use the energy of 528 hertz with a focused intent might have far-reaching effects on the completion of Sacred Status. Are these groups something you expect Guardians to create themselves, or is it something that you will be overseeing during 2012?

Well the thing to remember here is that they’re not necessarily relationships like marriages. But remember that I also said that until you are adept at the genetic exercises, just using the 528 hertz doesn’t mean you’re going to be able to get out of yourself to make anything happen, so using the sound frequency accurately is much further down the road than you are now.

Does that mean you’ll be setting up those groups later?

That’s what I thought might show up, and like so many things that I’ve discussed already, it’s not something I’m going to put together, it’s something you’re going to put together.

It will be a naturally occurring thing.

Yes. It’s one of the symptoms of that kind of energy.

Well, it sounds like PieHeart. You put out the concept and it was created naturally. You didn’t create that.

True. Yes.

So as long as we try to do these things now . . .

You’re going to be disempowering yourselves, needing an avatar instead of being the avatar.

The catch, I think, has to do with a question that came in for this interview: If people aren’t doing the exercises according to the pattern—and some are not now—is that going to hold the whole thing back?

No, because people who aren’t doing it according to the pattern are simply nullifying their own efforts, their own work, as opposed to those who are doing it as a completion of the group vision, who are making something happen.

A couple of times in last year’s newsletter interviews you stated that you didn’t think that all Guardians were reaching the frequencies required to do the upcoming work.

Ha, you think?

This seems to indicate a separation that isn’t in line with the Plan.

Absolutely correct. Just this morning I was talking with a friend about one of her parents, who is Guardian energy but has chosen not to do anything with it. Not only is that heart-breaking and frustrating, but it brings pain not just to the person who came in for that, but to everyone around them. Guardians who are not fulfilling their promise are miserable people. They are like spoiled fruit whose “use by” date has passed. They are crumbling in on themselves, and everything going on is about them, as they continue to destroy themselves. They don’t like being here because they feel guilty and frustrated, even when they’re not particularly clear why. They’re functioning at the human level; they don’t see themselves as having the power to find the way out of themselves, and they expect somebody else to come in and rescue them. It’s heart-breaking and disgusting, and frustrating and dirty, and it does a lot of damage.

And so when I look at Guardians who aren’t necessarily quite at that level but still have their own equivalent of it—”I’m awake, I’m active but I don’t trust and I don’t accept, and I have lots of fears, and I have very big limits on my growth and very big ego that says it shouldn’t be that way”—well, it gets worrisome.

And I’ve soap-boxed off the question itself, which was about what can be done to bring changes in that situation.

Something that would help Guardians right now, maybe more than anything else, is to practice letting go, and practice it until you realize that letting go doesn’t mean not having, and practice unity with others to the loss of one’s own ego. And I’m not seeing enough of either of those. Of course, I tend to be too subtle . . . nobody’s going to laugh?

[Laughing] We’re waiting for the hammer to fall.

And so when I spent the early part of last year and the latter part of the year before that talking about going through your house and cleaning out and letting go of stuff that you don’t need or is that getting in your way, it was to encourage you to retrain yourself to think that letting go isn’t a bad thing, and in fact it helps; it doesn’t mean you’re not going to have. So I would say bring those exercises back.

At the January first-Sunday, you gave us a lot of questions. It seems as though they are another avenue for this kind of help

Yes, they will help you realize what you do and don’t want, what you are really capable of, what direction you might want to be going. Absolutely. That’s what they were for.

And for greater unity without ego, give away the credit. Work together and don’t care what you’re going to get out of it as long as that vision is met. Work together and adapt to the people you work with more than they have to adapt to you. These are exercises that have a very profound effect in the real world to bring the change that you’re going to need into your life, and therefore into the world.

Months after the work in India, what can you tell us about the effects which you see of the two rituals we did there? Specifically, has the move toward individuation of the animals advanced as you anticipated?

First, remember that it’s a slow process, and I’ve tried to say that over and over. It’s not something you will suddenly see.

Well I could re-ask this in six months.

Well, if I answer this now and you ask it again in six months, you’ll have something to compare it to.

Remembering that it’s a slow process, I’m not contradicting that when I say that I have seen massive change. But interestingly, the biggest change that I’ve seen is in humans being able to understand the plants and animals, rather than the plants and animals being able to communicate better, because they have always been communicating. What has happened is that the plants and animals have become better at it, and as a result humans are getting better at hearing them, even to the point that the humans are figuring out what’s being wanted and being said.

For instance, I am seeing creatures understand your language better than ever before, whatever that language is around the world. That’s true with domesticated animals of course, but also the wild ones. The domesticated ones are watching you; so are the semi-domesticated ones—the birds, squirrels and groundhogs. So these are the kinds of things that you’re seeing the most of, and that I’m seeing.

Can any of you give me examples of what I’ve just described?

Yes. Wu had taken Hapi’s tennis ball into another room, and Hapi wanted it, and I said to Hapi “Go get it in the back room,” and he just went back there and got it.

Now, the two of you [David and Paula] are fostering a couple of puppies right now. They are between two and three months, that range?

Yes, and they seem to me to be more responsive to our verbalizations than I would expect puppies of that age to be.

And although this isn’t a very polite thing to say, they’re a breed that’s not known for its vast intelligence. And yet, they are connecting in and understanding what you want, paying attention in a different way, and their focus is greatly changed. Do you find they watch you?

Oh, yes.

That says a lot. Before this, a puppy, even a Guardian’s puppy, ate and released and slept and played. But they did not have enough of a mind that was their own to watch and learn. It just wasn’t a part of the system, and yet now kittens are doing it and dogs are doing it, and certain rabbits I have seen are doing it, some semi-wild birds are doing it—acting more individuated than they should be. It’s very interesting.

When I take the puppies for a walk and they hear a sound they’re not familiar with, a normal puppy would look at it to try and figure it out. Instead they look at me as if I’ll explain it.

Well, they’re looking at you to see what your reaction is so that they can learn from that. I really love that.

And Rosie [Paula’s and David’s dog] is vocalizing like crazy. I mean ranges of tone I’ve never heard out of a dog before.

[To Paula] You’ve been a mother so you know that when a child learns to talk, sometimes only the mother has any idea of what’s being said. Pay attention to that dog, because that dog is trying to talk. There’s going to come a point where you hear something and you think, “Did she just say that?”

I’ve been leaving out the plant kingdom, but plants are pretty immobile, and they don’t have the physical ability to do things that animals do. What you’re noticing in the plant kingdom is that you are much more aware of what is needed. “I need some water.” “I need better dirt.” “I’m lacking in these minerals.” People who know about gardening and plants are seeing more of that change than people who don’t.

Plants have always had the ability to let go at will, as opposed to you, who have to have a portal. What I’m seeing now that is different is a forest, for instance, where the ground is no longer feeding the life there, and the plants are allowing themselves to die so that the earth itself can renew, and they are making these decisions as a whole. I am seeing that with food crops in some countries. But, interestingly enough, I don’t see any change at all in some of your corporate farming crops.

Do the plants work in conjunction with, for instance, the insects in order to bring about their own demise?

They can. That’s one of the things I’m seeing happen, but they’ve always been able to do that to a certain extent. What I’m seeing now that’s different is that it’s a group decision.

You’re talking about plants that are growing in the same environment.

Yes. I am. Not corn all the way across the world.

Back to the animals: I was not expecting a big change in the creatures that were born after the work in India was done, and yet I’m seeing a big change. I don’t know that it’s a change that most people would consider that big, but I think it is. For instance, animals’ bodies are not following the age-old pattern of development. They are developing faster. The eyes are opening more quickly. The ears are functioning more and sooner. They are more able to stand alone and to even make decisions about their environment quicker than has been typical in the past. I believe that means that is happening throughout the animal kingdom, but naturally I see it more in those creatures that are domesticated, because they’ve got human energy, particularly amongst those that connect with Guardians.

Our last question is, How is the awakening of the Brahmaputra Dragon influencing the energy of that area by now?

Well, unfortunately you’ve seen Tibetans rise up, and they are getting smacked down. However, the very fact that there’s rebellion at all, as small as it is, is pretty amazing. Now, do I think as a whole that’s a good thing to do in a country in which you are breaking the law and it’s an automatic death sentence? No. But I am seeing that as a very powerful vision.

What else am I seeing? It’s important for the people who are reading this in March to understand that this interview is happening at the end of January, but I am seeing in just this short amount of time since the end of the trip in November that the northeastern quadrant of India is becoming a technical area, particularly in information management and skills such as that—a technology zone, it might be called—instead of that being only in southern India, where it has been for so long. That might not seem like something that would come out of a Dragon work, but what it tells me is that something very big, new and hopeful is coming to that area.

Another thing is America is recognizing Burma. That’s absolutely the result of the work that was done in India. In this short amount of time, it’s the biggest change I’ve seen Dragon work provide. It’s very encouraging. And I would like to say that from here on it will continue being like that, but that’s not necessarily true.