You have stressed that we should not be judging 5:3:2 events, because there is nothing in our experience on which to base any judgment. Does this mean that the Guardianship has pushed the energy boundaries further than expected?

The change from 4:3:2: to 5:3:2 did not have to do with the Guardianship pushing boundaries farther than expected, nor was it the result of mass consciousness, although that’s a part of it. The change has to do with a change in life force energy as a whole.

Now, life force energy as a whole includes mass consciousness and Guardianship energy here on the planet. It also includes elemental energy; it even includes the life force of the planet itself. if you will remember, over the years I have constantly said that the spiritual energy of humanity is moving on an upward evolutionary course and that the energy of the planet itself is moving on an upward planetary course, as well, and that Sacred Status will happen when they are working together equally. Well, as you know, Sacred Status has been activated at this point. They are working together. The beginning of Sacred Status activated on the planet what I call Ascension energy, and one of the results of all that is 5:3:2 energy. So, the beginning of Sacred Status started a change within all of life force—which you have noticed tremendously within your own selves—to bring about a stronger connection into spirit energy. That is the state of spiritual energy now.

Over the last couple of years—I’m not good with time, it was just a hiccup to me, but to you it was a couple of years—the changes brought about by Ascension energy (remember that at Sacred Status you moved into Ascension) pushed all of life force to a point where a new version, or new blueprint, of creation energy (the energy this planet uses to establish form) would be needed to en­ able form to handle the higher energy it was now working with­ the new, higher frequency of Sacred Status/Ascension. At the same time, all of the energy changes leading up to Sacred Status/Ascension on this planet were simultaneously drawing to this planet a like cosmic energy change insofar as the energy coming to the planet. However, the cosmic energy frequency was going to be too high for the current blueprint of form on the planet to be able to withstand (and work with ) ). A whole new form of creation en­ergy would have to be established on the planet for form to main­tain the new function it was capable of due to the changed frequency on the planet and coming to the planet due to Sacred Status/Ascension. In other words, 4:3:2 needed to change to 5:3:2. Now, all of that could go under the topic of establishing a new grid, because all of that was involved, step by step, piece by piece, in doing that.

After the Canary Islands trip you said we were only able to partially open that door. Do you know yet what is happening with the energy?

It’s not that sort of thing, like opening a door. The way I described it at the time was similar to a cat door. If the cat pushes really hard it runs right on through into the kitchen, and if it does not push hard enough, it has to push that door open by playing with it. But that was only an illustration; it’s not actually the way it works.

Now, the question might better be, Are there more now who are able to work with the higher‑frequency 5:3:2 energy coming through? because the more that are capable of working with it, the more established it becomes.

Musicians would probably be able to relate to this illustration. You have a student who has been practicing a long time, and they come to you one day and play a piece beautifully, but never can repeat it—they just can’t do it again—because they don’t really have the skill. It was a fluke. Well, that’s how the opening of the doorway was. The individuals were capable of opening it under incredible circumstances, but it did not mean that there was enough energy on the planet at that time—solid energy—to really hold that doorway open in a strong fashion. As a result of that, many within the Guardianship began channeling that energy through their own selves, as I discussed in the last interview.

Now, that has been very successful for two reasons. One reason is that it has altered individuals tremendously. It has altered them in very powerful ways, which has had an effect on those around them. If you would take a few moments to think about your outreach now, the people that you have contact with, the integrity of your spiritual experience in the world, you will see that you are clearer, stronger. You’re not embarrassed about what you are, because you are seeing amazing things happen as a result. This has made a much stronger foundation. It has in fact pretty well created a foundation that, if the 5:3:2 opening had been done now, it probably would have been solid enough.

The second reason, probably less noticeable to you, is that life force outside of human form has quickened. Do you understand what I’m saying there? Your ability to communicate with the animals has changed incredibly, hut their ability to communicate with you is the change I’m talking about. Plants, birds, rocks communicate with you on a higher level. This is a really important sign of the solidity of the change.

So these things work together to create a more solid foundation, because as you experience all of these things that I mentioned, it firms within you your acceptance of your empowerment, of your Guardianship, your acceptance of 5:3:2 energy. And what you do ripples out and touches others.

You made a point of focusing the recent Festival of Lights and New Year’s Eve ceremonies on healing, which you have defined as wholeness, and you directed our energy toward the healing of both the planet and the Guardianship. Please explain why you see such a need for healing at this time and also how the healing in the energy of 5:3:2 is different than it was in 4:3:2.

When a woman has a baby growing within her body, what does it do to her body?

Well, it changes the hormonal system. Her whole comfort level changes, and her physical body changes.

Her center of balance. What about her skin? Does that change? The outside? Does it have to stretch to accommodate?


Is that painful?

It can be. It depends on the individual.

The energy coming through right now has produced a spiritual version of those effects. You have been giving birth. You have been carrying this child, this potential. You’re bringing this energy through you and you are experiencing massive change. Your world is, as well. On the outside, you are experiencing your whole skin stretching to accommodate what is new, and what I would compare that to is your outer experiences, your relationships, the way you think of yourself and see yourself. All of this has been stretched. That can be a very painful experience.

Everything—governments, economies, ways of thinking, beliefs, everything—has been stretched out of shape, readapted, and now that the birth process is going on, some things are snapping back into place, and some are not. As always with change, there is acceptance, but there is also resistance, a response of seeking to control, because so many things seem to be chaotic. These are the things that require healing.

Now, healing for the world as a whole is different than the healing needed for the Guardianship itself. First I’ll go to the healing of the world: in the last six or eight months, what has happened in your world? Well, one of the things that has happened is you have war. And this war is touching your whole world. And as a result there have been passages out of form on a large scale. There has been disruption, and that needs to be calmed. And that’s probably all I can say about that.

Insofar as healing the Guardianship, well, that’s two‑fold. Look at what you have been experiencing. You have been experiencing the recreation of yourself. Sometimes for some of you that has been a life-or-death situation. For some of you it has simply seemed like a life-or-death situation. Nevertheless, you have dealt with painful experiences, which brought forth in you two things: trust—the lack of it and your awareness of that, or the development of it and your awareness of that—and a different attitude regarding empowerment.

More acceptance?

For some.

Bigger resistance for others.

For others. Yes. And those things need healing.

At the January Sunday-night meeting in Lexington, you said that you were calling this year the Year of Magic and Re-creation. What are the differences between illusion and magic? As we enter this new year, please explain why knowing the difference is going to be so important.

At that meeting one of the things that I was doing was trying to distinguish between two definitions of magic. On the one hand is the idea of magic as entertainment—as an illusion, as a smoke-and-mirrors sort of non-reality which reflects so much of your life, which is itself an illusion and a non-reality. Magic as illusion is a parallel to your own reality, in which you are a being of spirit functioning in form and yet the form has its own illusion, its own entertainment.

On the other hand, there is magic such as in your ability to create, which is absolutely different than even a few months ago. Through this year you are going to be seeing more and more power, control, and a need for responsibility.

In regard to making this distinction between the two kinds of magic, at a future workshop I’ll be discussing discernment and the decision‑making process, because when you get magic and illusion mixed up, you start making your choices based on an illusion, and that, of course, throws off everything.

Now, some of you may remember a few workshops ago, when I was trying to make clear the difference between Source and All That Is. When I was doing that, I was trying to explain it so that everybody understood that Source is. All That Is is the function of Source that humans relate to because it has to do with an aspect of Source which is slightly lower‑frequency—although that’s not accurate enough to be workable—because it’s an aspect that “does”. All That Is is bound simply by it being All That is, whereas Source is. There is a differentiation in All That Is. As individuals were getting that, it was a lovely moment of epiphany in a)) of the cities to realize that they are a part of Source, but they work through All That Is.

Now, fast‑forward from those workshops to the January meeting. What I was trying to make a point about was that you live in illusion. Anything that has to do with an outward projection of your form into the world—your personality, your beliefs, your ego—everything that has to do with the projection of yourself into the world–your skin and bones and blueprint—is illusion. Illusion isn’t a problem unless you believe it. It’s all right to have an illusion, but as soon as you believe that that’s all there is, you’re lost, because illusion is not real. Magic is. Magic is.

A poor definition of magic, as opposed to illusion, would be those activities that you are able to produce in the dimension of form which are a by‑product of a connection beyond form, accessing to that beyond yourself, more than it is a powerful function of spirit energy through your form. It is accessing that which is greater. Ultimately in the same way that Source is, in the macrocosm, magic—the ability to create what is the best and highest good for the moment—magic is. It is from that that the true seeding of 5:3:2 experience comes.

Magic is. You have a choice in your life to function through the illusion or not.

One of the things you spoke of at that meeting was the need to live through your heart instead of your head, yet for so many, everything that they have experienced—school, work, social life—emphasizes the head, not the heart. What kind of things can we do to train ourselves to live through our hearts instead of our heads?

If you wanted to put a word to what heart is, what head is, what word would you choose? What is heart when I use that word?

It’s love. It’s spirit.

You’re absolutely right. What is head?

It’s thinking, it’s form. it’s what keeps you in the illusion.

Yes. Working through your head is the affirmation of your physical essence in the world as a protective mechanism to keep you in the world, and to keep your world there. Working through your heart is choosing to come from a place which goes against the instinctual survival mechanism of establishing form, of working through the head. As you become progressively more confident in the process, it activates higher and higher frequencies of spirit’s access to form, access to form’s constant and truest nature. Now, that goes over into the magic, accessing that beyond form.

So ultimately, the very easy bottom line would be to say, anything through which you consciously choose to express the most loving thing as you know it at that time would be working through your heart.

What are things you can do to train yourself to establish a stronger foundation of putting love first and doing the most loving thing? Well, I’ll use this as a push for the Guardianship Program for those who chose to be a part of it.

Within the Guardianship Program, there were a lot of exercises that had to do with certain activities—removing them from your life or putting them into your life. As an example, I suggested that you remove television from your life, or, if you watched anything, in order to move it into a conscious behavior you had to record it and then watch it at a different time. The purpose there was for you to instill a discipline, because you wanted to do something specifically as part of a process to raise your spiritual nature.

The Guardianship Program came with certain rules. If you chose to be a part of the Guardianship Program, then you had to follow the rules. But choosing to be a part of it was an act which very strongly said, “I am choosing to learn to be the most loving spiritual being in order to express my Guardianship in the world.” Therefore it was functioning with the heart. Those activities included things as mundane as not watching television, as following a specific diet, as walking so that you’re out in the world and on the world that is speaking to you more than ever before, taking a couple of things out of your diet that you know are bad for you, making changes, allowing yourself to pay attention to that process. And then there are a couple of other activities I asked to be done, over and above the work within the classes themselves, that were also very big working‑with‑the‑heart‑not‑the‑head exercises. one of them was the exercise in which I asked you to save some money—it didn’t matter how much, because that’s not the point—the same amount throughout the class, and then anonymously give it away to somebody who you feel is making a good 5:3:2 effort in this world. The anonymous aspect of that has a lot to do with having to work out of the heart instead of the head. I have the leadership in Lexington doing a regular monthly exercise in which they partner up with somebody anonymously within the leadership and do good things for them. It’s changing the leadership.

A second exercise within the Guardianship Program that is a good version of how to work better with your heart has to do with giving of yourself. It’s a sacrifice of time. Now, there is another word for time, and it is illusion. And when you are caught up in the illusion, time is extremely important to you—it holds on to you, it grabs you. It forces you into your head. So by giving of your time, you are essentially saying, I am giving the most important thing I have. And you’re giving it freely to help somebody do something that’s just been weighing on them a bit. Something simple. Something easy, probably something that you would not do for yourself because you would consider it a waste of time. By that giving, by those sacrifices, you are forcing yourself into a position in which you are purposefully pushing aside the illusion and working in the heart.

These are all things that make a difference. Bottom‑line general statement: Consciously living love puts you into your heart instead of your head. The key word there is consciously.

The Guardianship Program, which will be almost over by the time this is published, is the latest in a series of programs you have designed for accelerated growth. What are you hoping the program will do for the Guardianship?

As I’ve said, a large part of what I wanted to do is to get people functioning out of their hearts instead of their heads, but ‘it goes farther than that. The by‑product of the Guardianship Program—and I’m not saying could be, I am saying will be—will be the development of a core of people who solidly are aware of their power and how to use it in the world in a way that is fulfilling and satisfying. Now, that sounds pretty good, don’t you think? It would not have been possible to have this program a year ago, because this program requires a 5:3:2 function. The instant manifestation that you have here (in Lexington), the creation energy as it is becoming now, would not have worked a year ago. You would not have had the help that the additional energy that you work with now gives you nor the willingness to not be afraid when ego issues pop up. That’s a very powerful change, to know that, “All right, here I go, I’m working through this, and I will work through it, and I will dust off and keep going and it will be all right.” To realizing that you have gone through so much that you trust the process is what allows the Guardianship Program to work. The ego issue is your friend rather than your enemy, so you see it as a good thing, helping you, instead of a bad thing.

Now that we are in 5:3:2 energy and there will be no more high rituals, what will replace them?

There is no high ritual because, in 5:3:2, you are what you called to for help in 4:3:2. As a result, what you are doing in 5:3:2 is focusing with common intent, in unity—all very, very powerful things—on a specific manifestation, depending on what the intent is. As opposed to laying the foundation and asking that it be done, you are working on the foundation and doing it. It is true that some are building the cathedral and some are laying tile, but the way that things get done in 5:3:2 has to do with the acceptance of one’s own power and using that with a specific focus to bring about a specific thing.

Why is it important to take a group to Bolivia and Peru this year? What do you hope to accomplish with the group there?

Lake Titicaca is where the working is to be, and so it is Bolivia that is the connection there. However Bolivia and Peru and part of Ecuador, I believe, and some of Chile as well—major parts of South America have a culture that goes back in an unbroken line to Atlantean seeding. You have there now tribes who, in their cultural memory, know the truest mysteries as their own tribal beginnings.

Now, that should be true all across the world, but it’s not. Aboriginal peoples here and there, including the Aboriginal people of Australia, have lost much of their own seeded information, but many of the tribes in South America, particularly those around the area of Lake Titicaca, have not. So that alone is worth the visit, that alone is worth going and allowing your energy to walk on that kind of earth and experience that sort of energy, because it’s going to feed you tremendously, just being there.

The work that’s to be done in Bolivia has to do with being the midwife to the birth of a very important 5:3:2 change. Throughout this interview, I’ve made references to 5:3:2 energy being so different and the different effects that it has within your world and within you right now. Through this grid, the 5:3:2 energy is bringing about a new form of energy into this world. One of the reasons it’s doing that is that the energy coming to this world is not stepped down and differentiated into various aspects as it is here in form. The work in Bolivia is to establish a reflection of that pure force energy by the fusion of feminine and masculine energy into one creation function here in the world, in this world. This means that the energy of the planet itself will be putting forth the same creation energy that is coming to it, bringing back a situation in which Sacred Status is able to make some leaps.

The fusion of feminine and masculine energy has been prophesied through these tribes since the beginning. In their telling of the stories, in the beginning the god and the goddess came forth, born from Lake Titicaca. That’s not actually what they think happened—that’s just a translation problem. Actually what they say happened is that the god and goddess were brought to the lake in order to come forth from it—and that’s pretty accurate—and that they then separated and went to different points in the world in order that the energy that they would bring to the world would affect the different tribes and peoples across the planet. But the time would come when they would return to Lake Titicaca and become one. Well, that’s what you’ll be doing there, assisting that process.

What significance does the formation of the toning Group of 12 work have? And what is their purpose?

Right now, at the time of this interview the Group of 12 work is not yet functioning. I have given to Paula, Suzanne and Mary Claire the charge of putting together the program based on what I have discussed is going to be involved. Perhaps by the time this comes out that will actually be in process.

The working that they do is an Energy Furnace. And I will leave it at that.

In our work some years ago with the pillars, the Energy Furnace came before the split into masculine and feminine energy.


So it is the power for creation. It’s that which fires the process.

There you go.