In this interview Samuel answers questions from the 2013 Retreat.

You said at the Retreat that you’ve been using the term hybrid to avoid using the right one, which is “Transfiguration of Ascendency”—becoming that which is beyond human. I understood you to ask us to see this process daily because it will make the transfiguration process easier and faster. Please explain what “Transfiguration of Ascendency” means and how it affects our functioning in form, if it does.

Well, as with anything I put a label on, it just means I put a label on it because it seems to fit what I’m looking at. So, this is not a stamp that the Universe put on it. To use an easy metaphor, think of a chrysalis. What is inside that chrysalis?

A pupa.

Right. Probably that pupa looks very much like a caterpillar. Maybe half as long as your finger, and, depending upon what kind it is—let’s say for this example it’s white and has a few black dots on it here and there, and has sticky pads you can pretend are feet—it’s ready to go to sleep. Its life is over. But while it sleeps, transfiguration happens, and it changes from what it was to become what it is. The ascendency is that it moves from something that has to stay on the ground to something that can fly.

You have been the pupa or caterpillar, but with knowledge. You have known that you were in that chrysalis, which is why it can be so frustrating. And of late you have been feeling these transformations. And, again to use a familiar example, let’s use werewolves, shall we? In the old werewolf movies, when the moon is full and the werewolf starts to change, it’s very painful. The hands become paws and the fingers change into claws, and it hurts! Well it’s a silly picture, but it’s a really fun version of what humans fear.

So there you are inside that chrysalis, and like the werewolf you are feeling the changes. When does that pupa become a butterfly instead of a caterpillar? When is that exact moment that it is no longer one and is now the other? Well, there isn’t a point like that. It is a constant process of change, and with every change it becomes more like a butterfly. But until that last moment, it’s still a caterpillar.

You are feeling those changes. You are experiencing that sense of becoming less acclimated to this chrysalis and the world. [Laughing] You are becoming more flighty. And what is before you now is the choice: Do you want to become a butterfly or stay a caterpillar?

Or stay in the chrysalis, the safety of the known.

That’s right.

Is that why so many old habits are raising their heads?

Sure. “I know caterpillar. Everything’s all right as caterpillar. Got caterpillar figured out.”

So everything you thought you were over is coming back stronger than ever.

That’s right.

Is there a reason you chose the word transfiguration instead of a similar word, like transformation.

Transfiguration speaks of a total change, but in this culture it is a reference to the transfigured Christ. The body was still somewhat recognizable but very changed, and I want that reference to be clear in the back of your head. You’re still going to pretty much look like you. People will recognize you, but the change is there on the inside.


Please discuss how we are changing cell by cell through the transfiguration process you spoke about at the Retreat. How can we influence the abilities of the new system by using our Intent, such as adding the properties of spontaneous healing?

One of the very frustrating aspects of this is that it’s slower than you want it to be—though it’s faster than I thought it would be. At this point, your ability to create through your Intent, or your ability to use creation energy at will is amplified, but what gets in the way of its being fully actualized are the parts that are still saying “It’s not really going to happen” or “I don’t deserve” or “I can’t have this.” Remember, we’re talking about a being that is in process, and it is still hearing the former self because it has not quite completed the process of becoming the new self. At this point, I don’t see anybody using the abilities of the new being to control the function of either the physical body or the physical world. I am seeing changes on the invisible levels quite a bit—changes that many of you are seeing or have seen. That is going to be mentioned in a later question here.

I went through all of that because it is what makes you not like all of this—it’s the “Well, why isn’t this happening now?” “Why can’t I do it?” “I could make change happen before. Why can’t I do it now?” But we are talking about change at such a massive mental level that it literally will take a new being to believe it.

Fantasy, science fiction, television, movies, they all show these things as fiction: you have severe damage in your joint, and you focus on it and within a minute or two all is well. You have pieces of that kind of experience now, little things that show that it can happen so you don’t give up. But you don’t have consistent control, and until that time comes that you have changed—transfigured—and acquired that consistent control, you’re not going to have the ability to create just by Intent.

What I’m really trying to bring out is that this is a two-level thing. You create by Intent now, and you do pretty amazing things by the world’s standards; you function with Intent and Thought and Word and Deed now. But what is coming is the transfigured version of it.

I believe that’s what the question is asking: When are we going to be able literally to change the way our cells are responding? And the answer is, I don’t know, because it depends upon when the butterfly emerges.

So it’s going to happen on an individual-by-individual basis.

That’s right. It’s not a tidal wave that knocks everybody over and they wake up and say “Wow.”

So this is a physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual trans-figuration.

Yes. Old thought patterns, old reactions, that’s embracing the caterpillar and not the butterfly.



At the Retreat you said, in effect, that we are releasing our personae, which included our spirituality. We think of spirituality as something to be strengthened. Why would we release it, and for that matter, how can we release it?

Again, that’s one of those things that’s going to show up on two levels. Right now, spirituality is what you do. What it will become is what you are. Do you see the difference? Spirituality at this point is based upon your doing the best you can, living love here, functioning at your highest at any given time. It’s what you do. You are an example. But you’re going to have to let go of that. That doesn’t mean letting go of doing the best you can do. You will be acting with the knowledge that you are the best you can be, and that is a huge difference.

Spirituality needs to be worn as comfortably and without thought as your human self is. You don’t think about breathing or making your hair grow. You’re human. When your spirituality becomes such a normal part of you that, without thinking “All right, I’m going to consciously put love into this,” your love goes into it, you are becoming the spirituality that this world needs, not the old that needs to be released.

We’ve been living with the perspective of being spirit learning how to live as caterpillar, whereas we need to be spirit learning to be butterfly.

Right. Living the rules of butterfly. It’s the difference between accepting and knowing.

You spent quite a lot of time at the beginning of the retreat talking about religion and spirituality. Was the point you were making that our spirituality is something that, even if we don’t embrace religion anymore, is still within us because we were raised that way?


So that is something that needs to be consciously released.

It absolutely does. You see, if you ask most people—even Guardians—to name five really spiritual people in the world, you’ll probably hear things like “Well, there’s Mother Teresa and the Dalai Lama.” You’ll get religious figures, and that’s a way to distance yourself from it. It’s a way to not have to be spiritual, because who could be Mother Teresa or the Dalai Lama? Who could be the Form? It’s ridiculous, but it’s handy. And at a retreat you’ve got an amazing group of people who are there for growth and change and learning new things—all of that really good stuff—who are very much into “living it means doing it right” instead of “when you’re there, it is right.”

It reminds me of when you used to talk about moving over, letting spirit just flow through you without even being aware of it.

But it needs to go one step further now. The kind of spirituality that I’m talking about doesn’t require moving over. It just happens naturally. It’s like a big litter of puppies all suckling at the same time, and one needs to get in and they just shift a little but don’t stop what they’re doing; without changing anything, that one gets in there. It doesn’t require moving over or changing everything, it’s just the way it is.


I finally, consciously, went to another dimension during the visualization you gave during the Retreat. It left me wondering—now that I understand how easy it is—why I would go to different dimensions and what it is I’m supposed to do there. Please explain that to me.

Absolutely. A very good, necessary question.

One thing that the dimensions have in common is that, in all of them, thought creates, but what it creates is different in each of them, even if it’s the same thought. The nature of the dimension is going to bring about a manifestation that is different because that manifestation is tuned to that particular dimension.

You’ve got to keep in mind that when you actually travel in this way, your brain is still processing what you’re seeing and experiencing in order for you to think, This is what it looks like and this is what is going on. The brain is still working because you’ve not left the realm of form, you are in the dimensional realities that make up the realms maybe. That’s really not officially correct except in the realm of form. So you could go into a dimension that the brain cannot register, a basic building block that wouldn’t look like anything to you. A lot of deep meditators go to the first or second dimension because there’s nothing there for them to experience. They get the sense of nothingness “I really went deep!” No, they didn’t. It’s because their brain could not resonate with the frequencies of those levels and as a result there was nothing for it to attach to and say, Ah, that’s what this is.

So there are several experiences that will seem like nothing, but the higher you go, the more you will see things that are familiar, until eventually it is everything but this dimension—full sensory understanding, which is what you got in your visualization.

When you are in any of those higher levels, you do have the ability to affect things, but then you have to make a choice: Am I going to observe or participate?

When you are functioning at the ninth, tenth, maybe eleventh—the twelfth just takes all of that in. I’m going to open a can of worms here. When you are functioning at that level, insofar as the physics of this world can relate to it, you are in a parallel universe.

Now, I don’t agree with the idea of parallel universes in the way that esotericism has explained it. It just doesn’t work that way. When I say “a parallel universe,” I mean where you go in real dreams, what you experience in real dreams. You have the choice in a real dream to participate or spectate, and more than that: to help, to work, to serve, or not. So when those who are able to go as high as you went in that visualization, you want to have decided ahead of time whether you want to be a spectator or you want to work. My recommendation is that you observe at first, but once you become familiar with the process, start participating, and then move to participating and activating, which is serving.

Here is why you want to do it that way: You know that expression “What you do in Vegas stays in Vegas,” or something like that? That’s not true when you are doing inter-dimensional work. What you do comes back with you. That’s a really good thing when you are in control, you are functioning at your highest and you have chosen to go in order to serve, but it’s not so good if you are still dealing with personal issues and you decide that you are going to serve. For instance, you find yourself in a large council room, and your opinion is asked for, but something in you—something not mastered, perhaps fear-based—tells you that you don’t have a right to take part in this. Well, they lost and you lost because where you are during that “dream” is as real as this world, your reality.

Another version of it is, you go to what looks like a regular life experience—this would probably be the ninth dimension, maybe tenth, but you’re in another time—your intention being to go back to your childhood. This explanation is going to get a little involved. Your physics says it’s either very difficult to go through time or even that you cannot do it. You can do it but it’s very difficult, because you’re dealing with so many possibilities, offshoots, decisions. You’re dealing with the whole of experience that took you there. You’ve got to go through the eighth and the seventh and the sixth to get to the fifth dimension, which is related to the fourth, where time is, and merge them all together so that you can make it work.

In the past, I’ve use a crumpled Kleenex to represent time. You’re in the ninth or tenth dimension where you see what looks like flappers [the dancers] of the nineteen-twenties. In order for you to be able to do anything there, you’ve got to move your awareness into that time, and in order to get your awareness into that time, you’ve got to take in all of the other dimensions below it. Remember time is like a crumpled tissue and you’ve got to find that one particular spot in there. It’s not so easy to do that, but it’s not impossible, and some of your wildest experiences will be because you have done it. Why would it be wild? It’s because you had to merge it all together rather than just visit the one.

So our present is a merger of all of those things?

Looking at it from the future, it is. Looking at it from the future where the present is the past.

So in the present, which is the past’s future, we have to see the past as collapsed.

The present is the future’s past, not the past’s future.

Using a line to represent time, which I don’t like to do, you have the past, the future, the present. The present viewed from the future is the past. The past looking at the present is the future. There is no present looking at it that way.

Would somebody that still had a lot of issues still be able to reach that high a dimension?

It depends on what the issues are. If the issues are about deserving and ability and all of that, probably not, because they will stop themselves. If the issues are about control and power, they probably will, because they believed they could do it. But when they get there, they want it all to go their own way.

I was aware of being an observer.

I recommend you start there.

I guess I’m still not sure what would be a reason for me to be of service there? What would I have to give?

Do you remember the illustration that I once used to explain personalities and time. I said that this index finger represents a personality in nineteen-seventy, and this middle finger could be eighteen-seventy, and so forth. When the nineteen-seventy life is mastered, it gives access to any other mastered lives. Now of course the first one is kind of lonely until there is another one, but still, it’s very much like that.

It requires a kind of mastery to comfortably function and move from dimension to dimension. That mastery means not observing the eleventh dimension, but actually functioning in it. You will be without a body but will still have thought. You will be working, if you choose, with what is the equivalent of your group soul. What is the equivalent of your group soul?

Your Group of Twelve.

Yes! Perfect, good! You will be working with your Group of Twelve. When you are working with your Group of Twelve you are working with the mastery of the dimensions, and in working with the mastery of the dimensions you have to have that background in order to function.

Sure, you are functioning invisibly, but with your mind, so you are able to look at that dimension and, because you have your mind, add a perspective of understanding that helps in the creation and the containment of the creation of that reality. Really big picture, your Group of Twelve holds the pattern for your world. Your Group of Twelve is the means through which you serve outside of form. Depending upon where you go, you may only have access to one of your Twelve until you get the highest level when you have access to all of them.

What can you do in this world with your Group of Twelve? Better to ask, what can you not do with your Group of Twelve. That’s why you’d want to do it, because that’s also why I encourage you to know your Group of Twelve and work with them even if you don’t see them or picture them and or have names for them. Just call on them and work with them. Then when you find yourself in this interesting place and you’ve got the presence of mind to say “See it, hear it, smell it . . . all right, high-level function here. I wish to serve,” you can become your Group of Twelve— embody it.

At a time of re-patterning, which is what this is, being able to function as the embodiment of your Twelve and putting that energy into your world is the equivalent of the Shining Ones walking again. Yes, where they go chaos follows, but so does everything that humans have called God or Goddess. Why would you want to do that? Well heck, why not? If for no other reason than to just see what happens, why not? But what that would put into the world is so hopeful, so bright, so powerful, and it just costs you a nap.

Are you saying just by being there and choosing to serve I become the embodiment of my Group of Twelve, and it works down and changes this dimension.

Yes, I am saying that.

What am I doing there? Are there projects at that level?

There aren’t projects at that level because you are a function of the One.

So I’m not seeing problems and going in and solving them.

Well, yes you are, but not by throwing your skin on and running out and doing it the way Frank or Margaret or Paula would do it.

With Paula’s visualization she was observing, what if she was there to serve?

Paula: What it means to me is, let’s say I was in the council and I was asked about forgiveness. Then I would draw on all of my experiences in this world that were focused on forgiveness.


That’s what I would offer.

Correct, yes.

So it would be this wide experience of working with the many aspects of forgiveness.

I understand that, but what if you’re not in the council? You’re standing in the street.

Everything is about choices, whether it’s as obvious as being in a council or in the street deciding whether to grab this person about to get run over? It’s always choices.

Would free will reign there as well?

Not in the same way as here.